[MPEG-OTSPEC] Some thoughts on the "under consideration" proposals

[MURATA]

Japan is very likely to make detailed comments
during the formal balloting process, since CITPC
(which contains most of the Japanese font vendors)
joins the Japanese mirror of SC29.

Regards,
Makoto

2023年7月1日(土) 6:07 Skef Iterum <skef at skef.org>:

>
> On 6/30/23 13:25, Dave Crossland wrote:
>
>
> Hi Skef!
>
> Great to see you share your personal thoughts here :) I want to comment on
> a couple of meta topics you raise at the top here. For the more substantial
> technical discussions, I propose you repost those the "Official MPEG
> repository to discuss issues on Open Font Format (ISO/IEC 14496-22)" at
> https://github.com/MPEGGroup/OpenFontFormat since the discussion features
> on Github's Issue tracker are more stronger than this old mailman list
> (markdown, reactions, tagging, milestones, etc).
>
> I think that just recently we were encouraged (by Vlad, at least) to post
> feedback to this list rather than use that GitHub project. And anyway the
> latter seems to be for the existing spec, and I didn't see either a branch
> or a pull request there that integrates the proposals in question (which
> would be premature anyway, I think), so it doesn't seem like it's the place
> to have *these* technical discussions at present.
>
> In any case, given the nature of the comments, I don't think there's much
> value in my personally following up beyond, perhaps, occasional
> clarifications. I'm raising issues that I suspect *may* be of wider
> concern. Beyond that I obviously can't serve as some kind of "moderator of
> general concern".
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 1:37 PM Skef Iterum <skef at skef.org> wrote:
>
>> for the relevant parties and knowledgeable experts to come together in a
>> representative working-group-like structure
>>
>
> As you may know, and as I understand it, the phrase "working group" has a
> specific and formally defined meeting on this mailing list (and that Github
> repo): It refers to the SC29 Working Group, which Josh was the Adobe rep
> for the USA delegation at the last WG meeting, and I believe more country
> delegations are likely to join upcoming meetings.
>
> Therefore this as an "ad hoc group" mailing-list/issue-tracker is "not a
> working group", nor is the activity in
> https://github.com/harfbuzz/boring-expansion-spec.
>
> So I am unsure what you mean by a "representative working-group-like
> structure [yet to happen]". Could you be more concrete?
>
> Sorry, that was a very general comment on my part, not relating to any
> particular ISO process. But, to give an example: whether ISO itself can or
> cannot host the kind of group I described under whatever circumstances
> depends on whether all parties that *should* be represented agree to use
> ISO for that purpose. Maybe they will. Maybe there is *no* context all of
> those parties can agree on, in which case we will struggle along. I'm just
> describing what I see as the best case, which I hope we will all try to
> work towards.
>
> (He also said "silence is approval", which I'm not sure really works in
>> practice, but is probably a nicer way of saying "put up or shut up".)
>>
>
> Again, AFAIK, this is the MPEG policy; once a submission is made to the
> WG, the AHG has an opportunity to provide wild comments, and the WG members
> have a formal comment and balloting process (which takes several quarters
> to run through), but in both venues, "silence is approval". I hope Vlad
> might be able to point to specific ISO policy documents to confirm this :)
>
> That may be the case, but what is in this or that specification or
> proposal only matters to the extent that it gets adopted, and adoption
> itself is not an ISO process or policy. You, Dave, may remember my
> experiences with SVG 2.0 a few years back (not as a working group member
> but just a "fan"). That is as good an example of any of how the standards
> process is ultimately trying to generate a kind of consensus, and if you
> wind up loosing that you've lost more or less everything.
>
> Skef
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>


-- 
 --
慶應義塾大学政策・メディア研究科特任教授
村田 真
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