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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=Section1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thank you, Ken.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I plan to provide weekly updates on this effort, starting from next Wednesday.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Mikhail<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> mpeg-OTspec@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mpeg-OTspec@yahoogroups.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ken Lunde<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 24, 2009 12:58 PM<br><b>To:</b> mpeg-OTspec@yahoogroups.com<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [mpeg-OTspec] Composite Font syntax<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div id=ygrp-mlmsg><div id=ygrp-msg><div id=ygrp-text><p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Mikhail,<br><br>Sorry for the delay in replying. I was on a hunting trip from 07/09 <br>through 07/21, and returned to work on 07/22.<br><br>I am glad to hear that you're willing to drive this.<br><br>Regards...<br><br>-- Ken<br><br>On 2009/07/14, at 12:23, Mikhail Leonov wrote:<br><br>><br>><br>> Hi Ken,<br>> I think we are in agreement on the basic structure of file format <br>> and design principles.<br>><br>> At this point, I believe it would be useful to split proposed <br>> features of the format in two broad classes:<br>> 1. Mandatory, such as interpreting entries in the correct order, <br>> parsing code point ranges and specifying language tags.<br>> 2. Optional, such as digital signature verification, selection based <br>> on the optical size, suppression of font style attributes, etc.<br>><br>> The idea is to establish enough common ground for the format to be <br>> meaningfully used by the producers, and at the same time provide <br>> enough flexibility to serve existing end to end scenarios.<br>><br>> I can drive creating a list of the optional features for the first <br>> revision of the format if that is OK with everyone.<br>><br>> Best regards,<br>> Mikhail Leonov<br>> Microsoft<br>><br>> -----Original Message-----<br>> From: Ken Lunde [mailto:<a href="mailto:lunde%40adobe.com">lunde@adobe.com</a>]<br>> Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 9:30 AM<br>> To: Mikhail Leonov<br>> Cc: <a href="mailto:mpeg-OTspec%40yahoogroups.com">mpeg-OTspec@yahoogroups.com</a><br>> Subject: Re: [mpeg-OTspec] Composite Font syntax<br>><br>> Mikhail (and others),<br>><br>> There has been no further discussion on this important issue, and I <br>> have also not seen any comments about daan Strebe's "Policy proposal"<br>> that was sent to the AHG mailing list on June 1st. I am assuming <br>> that no one has any objections to his policy proposal, which was <br>> well- written, and covers all of the bases extraordinarily well.<br>><br>> Although I will be on vacation for the next days, mainly in South <br>> Dakota for the 2009 Prairie Dog Safari, and to compete with in <br>> Cooper Arms' 2009 One-Shot Competition in Montana, I will have email <br>> access.<br>><br>> In any case, I'd like to see some more discussion about what led up <br>> to the topics below.<br>><br>> Thanks...<br>><br>> -- Ken<br>><br>> On 2009/06/25, at 10:39, Ken Lunde wrote:<br>><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > Karsten,<br>> ><br>> > With regard to there being no fixed hierarchy for the three possible<br>> > elements, that is very intentional. The moment we impose a fixed<br>> > hierarchy, we will immediately discover that a Creator will be <br>> unable<br>> > to express their Composite Font. Some Composite Font instances <br>> will be<br>> > driven by Encoding, others by Language, and perhaps even some by<br>> > Component Fonts. Where each of these elements are in the hierarchy<br>> > depends on the Creator.<br>> ><br>> > And, other than at least one instance of a Component Font, the other<br>> > two elements are optional. If they are needed, they are specified. <br>> If<br>> > not, they are left undefined, and the Consumer is then free to set<br>> > these as best they can, using attributes from the specified <br>> Component<br>> > Fonts.<br>> ><br>> > Regards...<br>> ><br>> > -- Ken<br>> ><br>> > On 2009/06/25, at 10:07, Karsten Luecke wrote:<br>> ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > Hello Mr Lunde,<br>> > ><br>> > > thanks, also for the enhanced example, the second-last for (1). So<br>> > > there is no fixed hierarchy for the Encoding/ComponentFont/ <br>> Language<br>> > > elements.<br>> > ><br>> > > Indeed my second example was not particularly effective. :D<br>> > ><br>> > > Best wishes,<br>> > > Karsten<br>> > ><br>> > > Ken Lunde wrote:<br>> > > > Karsten,<br>> > > ><br>> > > > Many thanks for the prompt feedback.<br>> > > >> Looks elegant. To be sure I understand:<br>> > > >><br>> > > >> (1)<br>> > > >> How would the re-encoding mechanism fold in? Starting from your<br>> > > >> example:<br>> > > >><br>> > > >> <!-- Latin --><br>> > > >> <Encoding Target="0000-007F"><br>> > > >> <ComponentFont BaselineShift="12" ScaleFactor="95"<br>> > > >> Target="LatinFont-1"/><br>> > > >> </Encoding><br>> > > >><br>> > > >> Since ComponentFont is inside Encoding, does one need to define<br>> > > >> ComponentFont again per each such re-encoding entry? E.g., with<br>> > > >> nonsense values:<br>> > > >><br>> > > >> <!-- Latin --><br>> > > >> <Encoding Target="0000-007D"><br>> > > >> <ComponentFont BaselineShift="12" ScaleFactor="95"<br>> > > >> Target="LatinFont-1"/><br>> > > >> </Encoding><br>> > > >> <Encoding Target="007E" Original="FE59"> <ComponentFont<br>> > > >> BaselineShift="12" ScaleFactor="95"<br>> > > >> Target="LatinFont-1"/><br>> > > >> </Encoding><br>> > > >> <Encoding Target="007F" Original="FE61"> <ComponentFont<br>> > > >> BaselineShift="12" ScaleFactor="95"<br>> > > >> Target="LatinFont-1"/><br>> > > >> </Encoding><br>> > > >><br>> > > > Yes, that would work, but given that the <ComponentFont> element<br>> > is<br>> > > > the same within each <Encoding> element, that could <br>> potentially be<br>> > > > placed higher in the hierarchy.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > The re-written example below does this, and also demonstrates <br>> how<br>> > > the<br>> > > > original PUA mappings can be retained, effectively allowing both<br>> > > > character codes to be used in the Composite Font definition <br>> (note<br>> > > that<br>> > > > I corrected the PUA mappings, to make them genuinely PUA code<br>> > > points):<br>> > > ><br>> > > > <!-- Latin --><br>> > > > <ComponentFont BaselineShift="12" ScaleFactor="95"<br>> > > Target="LatinFont-1"><br>> > > > <Encoding Target="0000-007D"/><br>> > > > <Encoding Target="007E" Original="E81E"/> <Encoding <br>> Target="007F"<br>> > > > Original="E826"/> <Encoding Target="E81E"/> <Encoding<br>> > > > Target="E826"/> </ComponentFont><br>> > > ><br>> > > > This means that U+007E and U+E81E (PUA) will map to the same<br>> > glyph.<br>> > > > Likewise, U+007F and U+E826 (also PUA) will map to the same<br>> > glyphs.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > Also, I should point out that my example did not use PUA code<br>> > > points,<br>> > > > and instead used GB 18030 code points. Here it is in its <br>> corrected<br>> > > form:<br>> > > ><br>> > > > <Encoding Target="9FB4" Original="E81E"/> <Encoding <br>> Target="9FB5"<br>> > > > Original="E826"/> <Encoding Target="9FB6-9FB7" Original="E82B"/><br>> > > > <Encoding Target="9FB8" Original="E832"/> <Encoding <br>> Target="9FB9"<br>> > > > Original="E843"/> <Encoding Target="9FBA" Original="E854"/><br>> > > > <Encoding Target="9FBB" Original="E864"/> <Encoding <br>> Target="20087"<br>> > > > Original="E816"/> <Encoding Target="20089" Original="E817"/><br>> > > > <Encoding Target="200CC" Original="E818"/> <Encoding<br>> > > > Target="215D7" Original="E831"/> <Encoding Target="2298F"<br>> > > > Original="E83B"/> <Encoding Target="241FE" Original="E855"/><br>> > > ><br>> > > > Sorry about that. Maybe it was the brandy. ;-)<br>> > > >> (2)<br>> > > >> Following the description of the fallback mechanism, could <br>> one do<br>> > > >> this?<br>> > > >><br>> > > >> <!-- ENGLISH --><br>> > > >> <Language Target="eng"><br>> > > >> <Encoding Target="0028-0029, 002C, 002E, 0041-005A, 0061-007A,<br>> > > >> 2018-2019, 201C-201D"><!-- POSSIBLY OBSOLETE IN EXAMPLE --><br>> > > >> <ComponentFont Target="LatinFont-1"/> <ComponentFont<br>> > > >> Target="LatinFont-2"/> </Encoding> </Language><br>> > > >><br>> > > >> <!-- OTHER LATIN-SCRIPT LANGUAGES, without Language --> <br>> <Encoding<br>> > > >> Target="0000-[...]"> <ComponentFont Target="LatinFont-1"/><br>> > > >> <ComponentFont Target="LatinFont-2"/> </Encoding><br>> > > >><br>> > > > Yes. The earlier declaration is given priority. However, I would<br>> > > think<br>> > > > that you'd want to specify different Component Fonts for the<br>> > second<br>> > > > portion. In your example, without explicitly declaring <br>> Language in<br>> > > the<br>> > > > second portion, you could eliminate the first portion, and get <br>> the<br>> > > > same results.<br>> > > >> (3)<br>> > > >> Even if given as percent, perhaps ScaleFactor better be a float<br>> > > rather<br>> > > >> than integer, for higher precision?<br>> > > >><br>> > > > I agree. If the Consumer cannot handle a floating point value, <br>> it<br>> > > can<br>> > > > then handle it as its wants, meaning to either truncate or round<br>> > the<br>> > > > value to an integer value. The important thing is that the <br>> format<br>> > > > allows the Creator to specify the value as intended.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > Regards...<br>> > > ><br>> > > > -- Ken<br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > > ------------------------------------<br>> > > ><br>> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links<br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>><br>><br>> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:white'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>