<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Georgia;
panose-1:2 4 5 2 5 4 5 2 3 3;}
@font-face
{font-family:Verdana;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#1E66AE;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#1E66AE;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoPlainText, li.MsoPlainText, div.MsoPlainText
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Plain Text Char";
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
code
{mso-style-priority:99;
font-family:"Courier New";}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
tt
{mso-style-priority:99;
font-family:"Courier New";}
p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph
{mso-style-priority:34;
margin-top:0in;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:.5in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
span.PlainTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Plain Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Plain Text";
font-family:Consolas;}
span.cat
{mso-style-name:cat;}
span.ct
{mso-style-name:ct;}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;}
p.attach, li.attach, div.attach
{mso-style-name:attach;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";}
p.bold, li.bold, div.bold
{mso-style-name:bold;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
font-weight:bold;}
p.green, li.green, div.green
{mso-style-name:green;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#628C2A;}
p.replbq, li.replbq, div.replbq
{mso-style-name:replbq;
margin:3.0pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
p.ad, li.ad, div.ad
{mso-style-name:ad;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
p.underline, li.underline, div.underline
{mso-style-name:underline;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
span.yshortcuts
{mso-style-name:yshortcuts;}
p.ad1, li.ad1, div.ad1
{mso-style-name:ad1;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
p.ad2, li.ad2, div.ad2
{mso-style-name:ad2;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:7.5pt;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
p.underline1, li.underline1, div.underline1
{mso-style-name:underline1;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
text-decoration:underline;}
span.yshortcuts1
{mso-style-name:yshortcuts1;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
font-weight:bold;}
span.yshortcuts2
{mso-style-name:yshortcuts2;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
font-weight:normal;}
span.EmailStyle38
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:102649771;
mso-list-template-ids:1439351114;}
@list l0:level1
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:;
mso-level-tab-stop:.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l1
{mso-list-id:174685650;
mso-list-type:hybrid;
mso-list-template-ids:305448652 67698705 67698713 67698715 67698703 67698713 67698715 67698703 67698713 67698715;}
@list l1:level1
{mso-level-text:"%1\)";
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0in;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0in;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link="#1E66AE" vlink="#1E66AE">
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Dear all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>In order to be able to submit ballot comments in time for them
to be processed through official channels we need to finalize the modifications
to the text of the corrigendum by March 29<sup>th</sup> (Monday next week).
There are two changes that were proposed:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Replacing “must” with “should” in the Recommendations section
for ‘kern’ table (see email from Sairus below), and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Changing the recommended order of GPOS / kern processing, as
suggested by Behdad – I am quoting his email he sent to OpenType list:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'>> (a) If the number
of kern feature lookups in the resolved language system in the GPOS table is
zero,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'>> then the kern
table must be applied, followed by any remaining GPOS features requested.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in'>I believe the order should be
the other way around. GPOS applies on the logical glyph stream whereas 'kern'
applies on the visual glyphs. So, normally, GPOS is applied, glyphs reversed
for RTL runs, then kern applies.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thank you,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Vladimir<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
mpeg-OTspec@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mpeg-OTspec@yahoogroups.com] <b>On Behalf
Of </b>Sairus Patel<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 11, 2010 7:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> opentype-migration-list@indx.co.uk; mpeg-OTspec@yahoogroups.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [mpeg-OTspec] RE: [OpenType] Kerning<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div id=ygrp-mlmsg>
<div id=ygrp-msg>
<div id=ygrp-text>
<div>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Thanks for the explanation, Si. From what you’re saying,
it sounds like TT fonts must have a kern table in order for kerning to happen
in PowerPoint Office 2007, at least on Windows. (Does anyone know of other such
apps?)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I didn’t call them out in the lists of Windows fonts with
both GPOS and kern tables below, but as I’ve mentioned before, important fonts
such as Times New Roman and Arial in Vista have a kern table and a GPOS table
with no kern feature.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>What should a layout engine do in this case? I’m not sure
users will be very happy if OpenType apps don’t kern their TNR and Arial
documents – or if the GPOS features that are present don’t get applied.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Or do we consider the above fonts to be badly made?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>If it helps, I think it’s OK to change the “must”s in
Adobe’s proposal (quoted by Vlad below) to “should”s. It is in the
Recommendations section, after all, and not in the spec proper. (I think layout
engine behavior should be in the spec proper, but that’s not something that
will be addressed in this next round.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Also, if desired, I’m OK with changing “font vendors are
encouraged” to “font vendors are strongly encouraged”.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>(I’ll be out of the office March 12-22, BTW.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Sairus<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: listmaster@indx.co.uk [mailto:listmaster@indx.co.uk] On Behalf Of
Levantovsky, Vladimir<br>
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:04 PM<br>
To: multiple recipients of OpenType - sent by<br>
Subject: RE: [OpenType] Kerning<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message from OpenType list:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Thank you, Michelle.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>All,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Currently, there is a language in the ISO/IEC
14496-22/DCOR1 (draft corrigendum) that modifies ‘kern’ table section of the
“Recommendations” (chapter 7) by adding the following:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>When a kern table and GPOS table are both present in a
font, and an OFF layout engine is requested to apply kerning to a run of text
of a particular script and language system: (a) If the number of kern feature
lookups in the resolved language system in the GPOS table is zero, then the
kern table must be applied, followed by any remaining GPOS features requested.
(b) If the number of kern feature lookups in the resolved language system in
the GPOS table is non-zero, then all GPOS lookups, including the kern lookups,
must be applied in the usual way and the kern table data ignored.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>If a kern table but no GPOS table is present in the font,
then an OFF layout engine must apply the kern table to the text, regardless of
the resolved language system of the text.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>If compatibility with legacy environments is not a
concern, font vendors are encouraged to record kerning in the GPOS table's kern
feature and not in the kern table.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>If we want to modify the text of the corrigendum, we need
to come up with and agree on the new wording. The draft corrigendum is
currently under open ballot, and in order to submit ballot comments on time we
need to finalize any changes to the text no later than end of March.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Thank you and best regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Vladimir<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoPlainText><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: mpeg-OTspec@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mpeg-OTspec@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Michelle Perham<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 2:32 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: mpeg-OTspec@yahoogroups.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: [mpeg-OTspec] FW: [OpenType] Kerning<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Forwarding Simon's response posted to the other list.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: listmaster@indx.co.uk<mailto:listmaster%40indx.co.uk>
[mailto:listmaster@indx.co.uk<mailto:listmaster%40indx.co.uk>] On Behalf
Of Simon Daniels<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 10:58 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: multiple recipients of OpenType - sent by<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: [OpenType] Kerning<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message from OpenType list:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Responding to earlier questions regarding OpenType
Kerning and TrueType kern table co-existing in some of our fonts.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>There are two reasons some of our fonts contain both styles
of kerning…<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>1. During the development of Office 2007 we made the case
for PowerPoint turning on kerning by default. When they followed our advice
they found that the new C* fonts were not kerning, we knew we really had to do
something, and that was adding in the kern table. This happened at the last
minute during Windows Vista/Office 2007, by converting OT-kerning to kern and
removing all pairs that contained unmapped glyphs.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>2. Some Windows apps, and Mac OS, assumed that any font
with GPOS table would contain OpenType kerning, so kern table was being ignored
in fonts like TNR which had mark positioning. For this reason we had to add
OpenType kerning to some of the legacy fonts which we’d licensed to Apple as
well as those commonly used in the OT-savvy Windows apps.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I don’t know if the spec needs to talk about what to do
if a font contains both. One would expect that both sets are compatible, and
that the app would use the OpenType kerning first, and only use kern if there
were no GPOS kerning.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Cheers, Si<o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>
mpeg-OTspec@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mpeg-OTspec@yahoogroups.com] <b>On Behalf
Of </b>Sairus Patel<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 02, 2010 4:16 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> mpeg-OTspec@yahoogroups.com; opentype-migration-list@indx.co.uk<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpeg-OTspec] Interaction between kern table and GPOS table</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Microsoft wrote on
2/9/2010:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>> It is trying to
cover some class of legacy cases… I do not even know how common this case is.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Fonts containing both
GPOS and kern tables that ship with Windows:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>** XP SP2: 4 fonts **</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>(pala.ttf palab.ttf
palabi.ttf palai.ttf)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>** Vista: 65 fonts **</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>(arial.ttf arialbd.ttf
arialbi.ttf ariali.ttf ariblk.ttf calibri.ttf calibrib.ttf calibrii.ttf
calibriz.ttf cambria.ttc cambriab.ttf cambriai.ttf cambriaz.ttf Candara.ttf Candarab.ttf
Candarai.ttf Candaraz.ttf constan.ttf constanb.ttf constani.ttf constanz.ttf
corbel.ttf corbelb.ttf corbeli.ttf corbelz.ttf dokchamp.ttf euphemia.ttf
framd.ttf gisha.ttf gishabd.ttf himalaya.ttf impact.ttf iskpota.ttf
leelawad.ttf leelawdb.ttf meiryo.ttc meiryob.ttc monbaiti.ttf moolbor.ttf
pala.ttf palab.ttf palabi.ttf palai.ttf segoepr.ttf segoeprb.ttf segoesc.ttf
segoescb.ttf segoeui.ttf segoeuib.ttf segoeuii.ttf segoeuiz.ttf tahoma.ttf
tahomabd.ttf times.ttf timesbd.ttf timesbi.ttf timesi.ttf trebuc.ttf
trebucbd.ttf trebucbi.ttf trebucit.ttf verdana.ttf)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>** Windows 7 (Enterprise):
81 fonts **</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>(arial.ttf arialbd.ttf
arialbi.ttf ariali.ttf ariblk.ttf calibri.ttf calibrib.ttf calibrii.ttf
calibriz.ttf cambria.ttc cambriab.ttf cambriai.ttf cambriaz.ttf Candara.ttf
Candarab.ttf Candarai.ttf Candaraz.ttf constan.ttf constanb.ttf constani.ttf
constanz.ttf corbel.ttf corbelb.ttf corbeli.ttf corbelz.ttf dokchamp.ttf
euphemia.ttf framd.ttf gisha.ttf gishabd.ttf himalaya.ttf impact.ttf
iskpota.ttf iskpotab.ttf KhmerUI.ttf KhmerUIb.ttf LaoUI.ttf LaoUIb.ttf
leelawad.ttf leelawdb.ttf meiryo.ttc meiryob.ttc monbaiti.ttf moolbor.ttf
msjh.ttf msyh.ttf pala.ttf palab.ttf palabi.ttf palai.ttf segoepr.ttf
segoeprb.ttf segoesc.ttf segoescb.ttf segoeui.ttf segoeuib.ttf segoeuii.ttf
segoeuil.ttf segoeuiz.ttf seguisb.ttf seguisym.ttf Shonar.ttf Shonarb.ttf
tahoma.ttf times.ttf timesbd.ttf timesbi.ttf timesi.ttf tradbdo.ttf trado.ttf
trebuc.ttf trebucbd.ttf trebucbi.ttf trebucit.ttf verdana.ttf)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Cleary, the number of
such fonts is *increasing* with every new version of Windows. Brand-new font
families as well as some of the most commonly used fonts in the world (Arial
and Times, as listed above) have both GPOS and kern tables.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Surely the OT/OFF specs
cannot ignore addressing how such fonts are to be handled.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>> It is really easy
to generate GPOS lookups out of ‘kern’ table, especially with my kern2volt
toolJ.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>In that case, it would
be good to know the reason for putting the ‘kern’ table in fonts -- especially
new families -- that ship with Windows. Or are all the fonts above to be
considered badly made?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>I think understanding
that is an important first step in getting resolution on this issue.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Best,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'>Sairus</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>
Michelle Perham [mailto:mihill@microsoft.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 09, 2010 12:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Levantovsky, Vladimir; Sairus Patel; John Hudson<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpeg-OTspec@yahoogroups.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mpeg-OTspec] Interaction between kern table and GPOS table
[1 Attachment]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Thanks Vlad. At Microsoft we have some concerns over the
kern table recommendations. Here is a summary of our concerns that was compiled
by Sergey:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>- It is hard to define exact behavior that will work for
everybody. Does it make sense to make it per-script or we just cover legacy
font with no kerning lookup at all? Should we skip mark glyphs while looking
for kerning pairs? There is no strict answer for these questions, so it opens
door for incompatible implementations and, therefore, hacky fonts.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>- It is dangerous to combine kern and GPOS lookups. It
may seem to help with some fonts, but will mess up less obvious cases. I
remember how easily we broke font lookups by zeroing widths of mark glyphs
outside of GPOS. Applying kerning may have the same effect.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>- It is really easy to generate GPOS lookups out of
‘kern’ table, especially with my kern2volt toolJ. We did this backwards for
ClearType fonts without much effect on overall font size. FontLab also should
be able to generate both from one source.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>- I do not see this as implementation spec, it has
appropriate level of detail for desired behavior. But it does not mean I like
this proposed behavior. It is trying to cover some class of legacy cases, will
open door for future hack, have danger of breaking old fonts and may not
work as Adobe expects it to work. And I do not even know how common this case
is.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>- Too many ‘must’s.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Michelle<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:white'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>