<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]--><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"MS Mincho";
panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Angsana New";
panose-1:2 2 6 3 5 4 5 2 3 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cordia New";
panose-1:2 11 3 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cordia New";
panose-1:2 11 3 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@MS Mincho";
panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Verdana;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#1E66AE;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#1E66AE;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoPlainText, li.MsoPlainText, div.MsoPlainText
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Plain Text Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
code
{mso-style-priority:99;
font-family:"Courier New";}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
tt
{mso-style-priority:99;
font-family:"Courier New";}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;}
p.attach, li.attach, div.attach
{mso-style-name:attach;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";}
p.bold, li.bold, div.bold
{mso-style-name:bold;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
font-weight:bold;}
p.green, li.green, div.green
{mso-style-name:green;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#628C2A;}
p.replbq, li.replbq, div.replbq
{mso-style-name:replbq;
margin:3.0pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
p.ad, li.ad, div.ad
{mso-style-name:ad;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
p.underline, li.underline, div.underline
{mso-style-name:underline;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
span.yshortcuts
{mso-style-name:yshortcuts;}
p.ad1, li.ad1, div.ad1
{mso-style-name:ad1;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
p.ad2, li.ad2, div.ad2
{mso-style-name:ad2;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:7.5pt;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
p.underline1, li.underline1, div.underline1
{mso-style-name:underline1;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
text-decoration:underline;}
span.yshortcuts1
{mso-style-name:yshortcuts1;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
font-weight:bold;}
span.yshortcuts2
{mso-style-name:yshortcuts2;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";
font-weight:normal;}
span.EmailStyle34
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.PlainTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Plain Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Plain Text";
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:1775320182;
mso-list-template-ids:1932408034;}
@list l0:level1
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0B7;
mso-level-tab-stop:.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level2
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:1.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
@list l0:level3
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:1.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level4
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:2.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level5
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:2.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level6
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:3.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level7
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:3.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level8
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:4.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level9
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:4.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0in;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0in;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body bgcolor="white" lang="EN-US" link="#1E66AE" vlink="#1E66AE">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoPlainText">Greg Hitchcock, of Microsoft, asked me to forward this response to the group:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">We need some clarification of terms here. I’m going to arbitrarily choose some version numbers to reference the PANOSE data.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">PANOSE 1.0 is the version of PANOSE used by TrueType and OpenType. The fields are defined here
<a href="http://www.microsoft.com/Typography/otspec/os2.htm#pan">http://www.microsoft.com/Typography/otspec/os2.htm#pan</a> and (this is important) the description of the contents of the fields are defined here:
<a href="http://www.microsoft.com/Typography/otspec/os2ver1.htm#pan">http://www.microsoft.com/Typography/otspec/os2ver1.htm#pan</a>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">PANOSE 1.5 is not part of the TrueType or OpenType specification and is defined here:
<a href="http://www.monotypeimaging.com/ProductsServices/pan1.aspx">http://www.monotypeimaging.com/ProductsServices/pan1.aspx</a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">PANOSE 2.0 is not part of the TrueType or OpenType specification and is (possibly) defined here:
<a href="http://www.w3.org/Fonts/Panose/pan2.html#DataStructures">http://www.w3.org/Fonts/Panose/pan2.html#DataStructures</a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">I agree that PANOSE 2.0 (using my definitions) is not part of this discussion.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">PANOSE 1.0 and PANOSE 1.5 are not fully compatible with each other.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">The OpenType specification contains a reference to the PANOSE 1.5 specification only in order to provide the information for a font developer to fill in the fields for PANOSE 1.0, not to add the PANOSE 1.5 field definitions. Note that
the OpenType specification says: "The specification for _assigning_ PANOSE values can be found here [http://www.monotypeimaging.com/ProductsServices/pan1.aspx]. " [emphasis added] (I'm using the definition of assign as: COMPUT to designate a value for a computer
memory location corresponding to a named variable.) The pointer was _not_ added to redefine the fields as in the PANOSE 1.5 specification, but rather as an online replacement for the reference in the OpenType specification: "The Panose values are fully described
in the Panose “greybook” reference, currently owned by Monotype Imaging." The "greybook" referenced in the OpenType specification is: _PANOSE Classification Guide: Numeric specifications for the classification of fonts in the PANOSE Typeface Matching System._
Version 1.2, September 23, 1992, ElseWare Corporation, Seattle, WA.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">PANOSE 1.5 requires that the Family Kind field be used as a key to interpret the meaning of the additional fields while PANOSE 1.0 does not have this requirement.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">PANOSE 1.5 attempts to closely match the fields and definitions of PANOSE 1.0, but it does not match exactly.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Microsoft products (Operating Systems, Tools, &c.) were all designed with PANOSE 1.0 in mind.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Removing the field definitions from the OS/2 table and instead referencing the specification at
<a href="http://www.monotypeimaging.com/ProductsServices/pan1.aspx">http://www.monotypeimaging.com/ProductsServices/pan1.aspx</a> explicitly changes the PANOSE from PANOSE 1.0 to PANOSE 1.5.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Because Microsoft products were designed for PANOSE 1.0 and PANOSE 1.5 is not fully compatible with PANOSE 1.0, this change can break Microsoft products.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">If PANOSE 1.5 support is desired, it would require adding a new field to the OS/2 table with the appropriate version change or adding a separate PANOSE table.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Greg<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> mpeg-OTspec@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mpeg-OTspec@yahoogroups.com]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Chris Lilley<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:33 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> suzuki toshiya<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Michelle Perham; Levantovsky, Vladimir; OTspec; Simon Daniels; Greg Hitchcock<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [mpeg-OTspec] RE: Proposed changes to the OFF specification<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div id="ygrp-mlmsg">
<div id="ygrp-msg">
<div id="ygrp-text">
<p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On Thursday, July 21, 2011, 10:37:59 AM, suzuki wrote:<br>
<br>
st> Dear Michelle,<br>
<br>
st> I (personally) think Panose 2.0 is something like yet-another<br>
st> Panose restructured from scratch, and it is not so easy to<br>
st> extend existing Panose 1.0 implementation to support both of<br>
st> Panose 1.0 & 2.0 seamlessly.<br>
<br>
I agree. Also, its not clear how complete the Panose 2 work is.<br>
<br>
st> I guess Chris Lilley mentioned<br>
st> Panose 2.0 for the ownership and the license info, and he is<br>
st> not proposing to use Panose 2.0 in future OpenType, at present.<br>
<br>
Yes, exactly. <br>
<br>
-- <br>
Chris Lilley Technical Director, Interaction Domain <br>
W3C Graphics Activity Lead, Fonts Activity Lead<br>
Co-Chair, W3C Hypertext CG<br>
Member, CSS, WebFonts, SVG Working Groups<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:white"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>