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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hi Sairus, all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regarding the grouping of the tables in the document structure – I agree that it may seem confusing that some optional tables that are outline
specific (such as ‘gasp’) are included in the optional tables subclause while other tables (‘VORG’, ‘SVG’) are listed either in a separate subclause or in outline-specific section. I suggest that we should group outline-specific tables together (which was
the original intent) and, at the same time, include them all in the list of optional tables. I.e., the ‘gasp’ table description can be moved from 5.7 to the end of subclause 5.3, the “VORG table will stay as is in subclause 5.4, SVG will occupy its own subclause
5.5 as it’s currently the case, and all three tables will be listed in the list of optional tables in subclause 5.7 for clarity.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regarding the use of CPAL values and hard-coded colors in SVG – we need to finalize this comment and provide clarification text. If you disagree
with the changes proposed by Chris, please discuss it with Cameron and provide an alternative suggested language.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thank you,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Vlad<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:left;line-height:normal">
<b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> Sairus Patel [mailto:sppatel@adobe.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 05, 2014 11:10 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Chris Lilley; Levantovsky, Vladimir; Cameron McCormack<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpeg-OTspec@yahoogroups.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [mpeg-OTspec] AHG Kick-off and new draft to review<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="text-align:left"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:left;line-height:normal">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hello Chris, Cameron, Vlad,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:left;line-height:normal">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:left;line-height:normal">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><<<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:left;line-height:normal">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black;background:white;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">"It is not a requirement that an OFF engine support this table."</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><br>
<br>
<span style="background:white">Since this is true for any table not marked as mandatory, this</span><br>
<span style="background:white">sentence is redundant and should be removed.</span><br>
<br>
<span style="background:white">(I'm aware the original submission is the origin of this phrase.</span><br>
<span style="background:white">Still, it should be removed).</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:left;line-height:normal">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black;background:#FFFEFE;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">>></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:left;line-height:normal">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:left;line-height:normal">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";background:#FEFDFD;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Agreed. The phrase probably came from some initial proposal that emphasized that existing engines won’t suddenly be made non-conformant.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:left;line-height:normal">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:left;line-height:normal">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";background:#FDFCFC;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><<</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:left;line-height:normal">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";background:white;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">5.7 Optional tables</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><br>
<br>
<span style="background:white">Add SVG table</span><br>
>><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:left;line-height:normal">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:left;line-height:normal">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I was looking at the organization of sec 5 in OFF and it looks like it’s broken down like this:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:left;line-height:normal">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">5.2. Required common tables (cmap, OS/2, etc)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:left;line-height:normal">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">5.3. TT-related tables<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:left;line-height:normal">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">5.4. CFF-related tables (both required and optional, e.g. CFF and VORG)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:left;line-height:normal">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">5.5. SVG table (optional)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:left;line-height:normal">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">5.6. Bitmap tables (optional, including the new color ones)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:left;line-height:normal">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">5.7. Optional tables (including gasp, which is a TT-only table, and should perhaps be in 5.3? Also including COLR and CPAL)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:left;line-height:normal">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:left;line-height:normal">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">It seems like 5.5., 5.6, and 5.7 are all optional tables, and that at least one other optional table, VORG, is in the CFF section, but gasp, which is TT-only, is
not in the TT secetion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:left;line-height:normal">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I’m not sure how OFF should organize all this, but I agree mandatory/optional should be an attribute clearly visible when scanning the table of contents. It seems
useful that CFF-only and TT-only tables are clearly grouped together or indicated as such in some other way.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:left;line-height:normal">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:left;line-height:normal">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><<<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:left;line-height:normal">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";background:white;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">"With SVG, the CPAL table is optional, and contains the values of any</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><br>
<span style="background:white">color variables used by the SVG glyph descriptions in the SVG table.</span><br>
<span style="background:white">The SVG glyph descriptions are able to express their own explicit or</span><br>
<span style="background:white">“hard-coded” colors as well; these do not vary by palette selection."</span><br>
<span style="background:white">and then</span><br>
<span style="background:white">"When used with an SVG table, the default palette’s colors must be set</span><br>
<span style="background:white">to the same values as the default values for the color variables in</span><br>
<span style="background:white">the SVG glyph descriptions; this is for text engines that support the</span><br>
<span style="background:white">SVG table but not color palettes."</span><br>
<br>
<span style="background:white">The second quoted section suggests that when using a non-default</span><br>
<span style="background:white">palette, the hard-coded colors will be overidden (which is desirable);</span><br>
<span style="background:white">the first quoted section seems to indicate that they will not. This</span><br>
<span style="background:white">conflict should be clarified.</span><br>
<br>
<span style="background:white">My suggested wording to resolve this:</span><br>
<br>
<span style="background:white">"... explicit or “hard-coded” colors as well; these colors will be</span><br>
<span style="background:white">used if there is no CPAL table in the font.</span>”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="left" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:left;line-height:normal">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";background:#FFFEFE;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">>></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";background:#FEFDFD;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The explicit or “hard-coded” colors in the quote from the spec refers to colors
<i>not</i> related to color variables at all. They are simply colors that are always to be used when rendering the SVG, regardless of color palette selection or color palette support of the engine. For example, a font designer may want the teardrop on a crying
emoji always to be blue (this is “hard-coded”) but the rest of the emoji is regulated by color variables, with the skin of the face having a default value of the standard smiley-face yellow (default both in the SVG glyph description itself and in the default
color palette).</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";background:#FDFCFC;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The spec draft example shows:</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-autospace:none">
<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-family:"Courier New""><path fill="var(--color0)" d="...”/></span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-autospace:none">
<span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">But doesn’t show how to code a default value if --color0 isn’t defined in the stylesheet. I thought we had it there in some previous draft. Cameron: does this ring a bell?</span><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";background:#FDFCFC;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Best,</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";background:#FCFBFB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Sairus</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><'Levantovsky>, "Vladimir'
<a href="mailto:vladimir.levantovsky@monotype.com">vladimir.levantovsky@monotype.com</a> [mpeg-OTspec]" <<a href="mailto:mpeg-OTspec-noreply@yahoogroups.com">mpeg-OTspec-noreply@yahoogroups.com</a>><br>
<b>Organization: </b>W3C<br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>Chris Lilley <<a href="mailto:chris@w3.org">chris@w3.org</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, November 5, 2014 at 6:23 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>"'Levantovsky, Vladimir' <a href="mailto:vladimir.levantovsky@monotype.com">
vladimir.levantovsky@monotype.com</a> [mpeg-OTspec]" <<a href="mailto:mpeg-OTspec-noreply@yahoogroups.com">mpeg-OTspec-noreply@yahoogroups.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"<a href="mailto:mpeg-OTspec@yahoogroups.com">mpeg-OTspec@yahoogroups.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:mpeg-OTspec@yahoogroups.com">mpeg-OTspec@yahoogroups.com</a>>, Vladimir Levantovsky <<a href="mailto:Vladimir.Levantovsky@monotype.com">Vladimir.Levantovsky@monotype.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [mpeg-OTspec] AHG Kick-off and new draft to review<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Hello Vladimir',<br>
<br>
Tuesday, November 4, 2014, 6:41:46 PM, you wrote:<br>
<br>
> <br>
> [Attachment(s) from Levantovsky, Vladimir included below] <br>
<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Dear AHG members,<br>
<br>
> This is a red-line revision of the original document with all<br>
> changes tracked – please review and provide any additional comments.<br>
> Just to remind you – the original DIS document is still under open<br>
> ballot and the comments should be submitted no later than early<br>
> December 2014 – we still have about a month of time to discuss and<br>
> suggest additional clarifications and text corrections.<br>
<br>
2. Normative references<br>
"Unicode 6.1, <<a href="http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode6.1.0/%3e">http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode6.1.0/></a>"<br>
<br>
As Unicode 7.0.0 was published on October 8, 2014 this should be updated<br>
to Unicode 7.0.0 <<a href="http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode7.0.0/">http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode7.0.0/</a>><br>
<br>
"Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG) 1.1 (2nd edition), W3C Recommendation,<br>
16 August 2011"<br>
please append the URL<br>
<<a href="http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/">http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/</a>><br>
<br>
5.5 Table for SVG glyph outlines<br>
"It is not a requirement that an OFF engine support this table."<br>
<br>
Since this is true for any table not marked as mandatory, this<br>
sentence is redundant and should be removed.<br>
<br>
(I'm aware the original submission is the origin of this phrase.<br>
Still, it should be removed).<br>
<br>
5.5.1 SVG – The SVG (Scalable Vector Graphics) table<br>
"This table contains SVG [16] descriptions"<br>
<br>
The references in section 2 are not numbered, so the [16] should be<br>
removed. The normative references section has an entry for SVG.<br>
<br>
5.5.2 Color Palettes<br>
"CSS custom properties [18] in a User Agent style sheet"<br>
and<br>
"CSS Custom Properties for Cascading Variables specification [18], as<br>
this is required "<br>
<br>
The references in section 2 are not numbered, so the [18] should be<br>
removed. There is no entry under Normative references for CSS custom<br>
properties. As this is not yet a W3C Recommendation I would suggest,<br>
if ISO rules allow, adding the following to a new 2.1 Informative<br>
references section.<br>
<br>
CSS Custom Properties for Cascading Variables Module Level 1, W3C<br>
Working Draft, 6 May 2014<br>
<<a href="http://www.w3.org/TR/css-variables-1/">http://www.w3.org/TR/css-variables-1/</a>><br>
<br>
5.5.5 Glyph Rendering<br>
"as described in the latest version of the SVG Integration<br>
specification [17]. "<br>
<br>
The references in section 2 are not numbered, so the [17] should be<br>
removed. In the Informative references section, please add<br>
<br>
SVG Integration, W3C Working Draft, 17 April 2014<br>
<<a href="http://www.w3.org/TR/svg-integration/">http://www.w3.org/TR/svg-integration/</a>><br>
<br>
"at least version 1.1 of the SVG specification [16]. "<br>
<br>
The references in section 2 are not numbered, so the [16] should be<br>
removed.<br>
<br>
"according to the definitions found in SVG 2 [19], as these<br>
definitions"<br>
<br>
The references in section 2 are not numbered, so the [19] should be<br>
removed. In the Informative references section, please add<br>
<br>
Scalable Vector Graphics 2 (SVG2), W3C Working Draft, 11 February<br>
2014. <<a href="http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG2/">http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG2/</a>><br>
<br>
"requirements in the latest version of the SVG Integration<br>
specification for "font documents" be followed. [17]"<br>
<br>
remove the [17]<br>
<br>
5.7 Optional tables<br>
<br>
Add SVG table<br>
<br>
5.7.11 CPAL – Palette Table<br>
"The color space for these values is sRGB."<br>
<br>
Please add to Normative References<br>
<br>
IEC 61966-2-1/Amd 1:2003 : Multimedia systems and equipment — Colour<br>
measurement and management — Part 2-1: Colour management — Default RGB<br>
colour space — sRGB, International Electrotechnical Commission, 2003.<br>
<br>
"With SVG, the CPAL table is optional, and contains the values of any<br>
color variables used by the SVG glyph descriptions in the SVG table.<br>
The SVG glyph descriptions are able to express their own explicit or<br>
“hard-coded” colors as well; these do not vary by palette selection."<br>
and then<br>
"When used with an SVG table, the default palette’s colors must be set<br>
to the same values as the default values for the color variables in<br>
the SVG glyph descriptions; this is for text engines that support the<br>
SVG table but not color palettes."<br>
<br>
The second quoted section suggests that when using a non-default<br>
palette, the hard-coded colors will be overidden (which is desirable);<br>
the first quoted section seems to indicate that they will not. This<br>
conflict should be clarified.<br>
<br>
My suggested wording to resolve this:<br>
<br>
"... explicit or “hard-coded” colors as well; these colors will be<br>
used if there is no CPAL table in the font."<br>
<br>
(I have only reviewed the references, SVG, and CPAL sections).<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Best regards,<br>
Chris Lilley, Technical Director, W3C Interaction Domain<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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