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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Dear Ken,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>The former is better than the latter. Still reading <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal>kana Hiragana <br>kana Katakana <br><br><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>I feel like saying<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>letter Greek letter<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>letter Latin latter<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>In other words, why don;t you simply say<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Hiragana<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Katakana<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Anyway,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal>kana Hiragana <br>kana Katakana <br><br><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>is fine. Just it looks odd to me<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>leonardo <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Learn about <a href="http://www.wimbridge.tv/bridgetplayer/index.html?videoId=56e2ec42c83add010026543d&startFlag&startFlag"><span style='color:#0563C1'>CEDEO</span></a> in a video bridget<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Watch video bridgets of famous cities: </span><span lang=IT style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><a href="http://wimbridge.tv/bridgetplayer/index.html?videoId=5697701216868d0100dd8178&startFlag"><span lang=EN-GB style='color:#0563C1'>London</span></a></span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>, </span><span lang=IT style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><a href="http://wimbridge.tv/bridgetplayer/index.html?videoId=56cb1f8bc83add01002653cb&startFlag"><span lang=EN-GB style='color:#0563C1'>Madrid</span></a></span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>, </span><span lang=IT style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><a href="http://wimbridge.tv/bridgetplayer/index.html?videoId=569e3b9116868d0100dd81cd&startFlag"><span lang=EN-GB style='color:#0563C1'>Rome</span></a></span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>, </span><span lang=IT style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><a href="http://wimbridge.tv/bridgetplayer/index.html?videoId=5696660b16868d0100dd8141&startFlag"><span lang=EN-GB style='color:#0563C1'>Turin</span></a></span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Create your own video bridget: <a href="http://www.wimbridge.tv/"><span style='color:#0563C1'>http://www.wimbridge.tv/</span></a> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB style='color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> mpeg-OTspec@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mpeg-OTspec@yahoogroups.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ken Lunde lunde@adobe.com [mpeg-OTspec]<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, 01 April, 2016 14:27<br><b>To:</b> Leonardo Chiariglione <leonardo@chiariglione.org><br><b>Cc:</b> OTspec <mpeg-OTspec@yahoogroups.com><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: script tags update (Re: [mpeg-OTspec] Digest Number 549) [2 Attachments]<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div id=ygrp-mlmsg><div id=ygrp-msg><div id=ygrp-text><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt'>[<a href="#TopText"><span style='text-decoration:none'>Attachment(s)</span></a> from Ken Lunde included below]</span></b> <o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Leonardo, <br><br>Perhaps the best way to visualize my point is to simply transpose and re-sort the two columns of the table under discussion (see the attachment). Which would be preferred? The following two separate (and contiguous) entries? <br><br>kana Hiragana <br>kana Katakana <br><br>Or, the following consolidated one, which is functionally the same: <br><br>kana Kana (Hiragana and Katakana) <br><br>BTW, "kana" is the only duplicate script tag in the table. <br><br>When you bring kanji into the picture, you're conflating scripts with writing systems. For Source Han Sans / Noto Sans CJK, language JAN is globally declared for scripts kana and hani so that Japan (if thinking of region) or Japanese (if thinking of language) are handled properly in features such as 'locl' and even 'vert', and script latn even comes into the picture for characters such as U+2026 (…) that have different treatment for Western and CJK use. <br><br>Best... <br><br>-- Ken <br><br>> On Apr 1, 2016, at 1:27 AM, Leonardo Chiariglione <leonardo@chiariglione.org> wrote: <br>> <br>> That is exactly what I was trying to say: hiragana and katakana are separate alphabets and, unless for some strange reasons they need to be bundled together they should be kept separate. From a functional or typographic point of view it makes sense to handle kanji, hiragana and katakana together <br>> Leonardo <br>> <br>> Learn about CEDEO in a video bridget <br>> Watch video bridgets of famous cities: London, Madrid, Rome, Turin <br>> Create your own video bridget: http://www.wimbridge.tv/ <br>> <br>> <br>> From: mpeg-OTspec@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mpeg-OTspec@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken Lunde lunde@adobe.com [mpeg-OTspec] <br>> Sent: Friday, 01 April, 2016 02:06 <br>> To: John Hudson <john@tiro.ca> <br>> Cc: OTspec <mpeg-OTspec@yahoogroups.com> <br>> Subject: Re: script tags update (Re: [mpeg-OTspec] Digest Number 549) <br>> <br>> <br>> John, <br>> <br>> From Unicode's point of view, it makes sense to have Hiragana and Katakana as separate scripts. From a functional or typographic point of view, they are treated the same, which explains why a single script tag is used in OpenType. <br>> <br>> So, to answer your question, I think it is the former. <br>> <br>> I am simply trying to simplify the table without removing information, and my suggestion does precisely this. <br>> <br>> Best... <br>> <br>> -- Ken <br>> <br>> > On Mar 31, 2016, at 4:44 PM, John Hudson <john@tiro.ca> wrote: <br>> > <br>> > On 31/03/16 14:29, 'Adam Twardoch (List)' list.adam@twardoch.com [mpeg-OTspec] wrote: <br>> > <br>> >> In Unicode, Hiragana and Katakana are classified as separate scripts, in OpenType, they share one script tag. There is nothing wrong with that by itself — the OpenType script tags are primarily a mechanism to activate a certain "script-specific processing sub-engine" within the OpenType Layout engine, and both kana variants can be processed with the same sub-engine because their behavioral logic is practically the same. <br>> > <br>> > Out of idle interest: <br>> > <br>> > Is the implication of this that Katakana and Hiragana runs identified and separated by script itemisation — based on Unicode script property — are passed to a single layout engine that processes glyphs for both using features and lookups mapped in the <kana> OTL script tag? <br>> > <br>> > Or is the implication that Katakana and Hiragana, if adjacent, are rolled into a single 'kana' run before being passed to the layout engine? <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > JH <br>> > <br>> > -- <br>> > <br>> > John Hudson <br>> > Tiro Typeworks Ltd www.tiro.com <br>> > Salish Sea, BC tiro@tiro.com <br>> > <br>> > Getting Spiekermann to not like Helvetica is like training <br>> > a cat to stay out of water. But I'm impressed that people <br>> > know who to ask when they want to ask someone to not like <br>> > Helvetica. That's progress. -- David Berlow <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:white'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>