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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Y’all are talking as if the font wars
were a bad thing.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">As I recall, the font wars a) forced
Adobe to open up the PS Type 1 format, enabling the explosion of
independent font foundries of the 1990s, b) were a period of
innovation resulting in better text rendering that was a
significant contribution to the success of the Internet, and c)
focused competitive efforts on internationalisation and complex
script support.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Yes, it was an uncomfortable time for
the companies involved: it required them to actually do things and
to innovate. And yes, it came with frustrations for font and tool
makers trying to understand the new formats and implement them
correctly for competing platforms. There is a lot of be said in
favour of collaborative innovation on a single format, but relying
on buy-in to collaboration as a prerequisite for innovation can
collapse into inaction very easily.<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">JH<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I
agree with the sentiment Peter and Rod expressed, and I
would consider this particular venue (i.e., the mpeg-otspec
email list) to be a very suitable place to conduct these
discussions – we just need to adopt a much more thoughtful,
strategic approach to things to make sure that we have
everyone included in the discussion, and invested in making
it a successful endeavor.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">We
also need to be mindful about organizational boundaries
(something I believe I already mentioned in the past). OFF
work has been successfully conducted by ISO since 2002, and
an attempt to divert a new font format work into a different
venue would introduce an unwelcome conflict IMO, something
that is more likely to be seen as a new “font war”. Given
that we can develop and present a clear strategic reason and
direction for the development of the entirely new font
format, ISO (SC29/WG3) will definitely entertain the idea of
taking on this new work item as well.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">As
far as FTCG is concerned, I believe we have a
well-documented consensus decision (expressed both in the
informal meeting minutes as “</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">The
Font and Text Community Group gathers individuals and
organisations to discuss and develop specifications and
implementations for technologies such as shaping and layout
<span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">which
operate on and at the interface between text encoding and
font formats</span></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">”
and in the draft charter) that the FTCG work is
complementary to font format development. It does NOT mean
that discussions there are limited in any way – the FTCG
work will undoubtedly inform and influence the decisions
about new font format – we just need to be mindful that we,
in essence, have one large community of people participating
in two closely related activities conducted by different
entities.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thank
you,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Vlad<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
mpeg-otspec <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mpeg-otspec-bounces@lists.aau.at"><mpeg-otspec-bounces@lists.aau.at></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Roderick Sheeter<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, September 13, 2020 5:43 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Peter Constable <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pgcon6@msn.com"><pgcon6@msn.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> mpeg-otspec <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at"><mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [MPEG-OTSPEC] Introducing breaking
changes into the spec (was: RE: [EXTERNAL] Proposal to
deprecate derived search values)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">It would be helpful to start by
understanding what changes people want to make and why. One
possible approach would be to simply ask people to post
their thoughts and share links back to the group (perhaps CG
mailing list?), inspired by the Rust call for blogs (<a
href="https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/lz6LCo20KjhXL7NGsVo1ki"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://blog.rust-lang.org/2019/10/29/A-call-for-blogs-2020.html</a>). <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 10:02 AM Peter
Constable <<a href="mailto:pgcon6@msn.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">pgcon6@msn.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">>
<span lang="EN-CA">I really hope we’re not going to
try to define some entirely new font format by
email.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-CA"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Someone
mentioned offline that my brief message, saying what I
don’t want but not what I would want to see happen,
might come across as trying to shut down discussion
and block progress. I think that’s valid feedback, and
so want to correct that with a brief elaboration.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Clearly,
my statement indicates a desire to shut down
discussion—_<i>in this current mode and context</i>_.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">For
one thing, I thought there had been general consensus
that a topic like creating an entirely new format
would be pending a discussion elsewhere (the TFCG) on
what new areas of activity should be discussed and
what the appropriate context(s) for those should be.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Secondly,
discussion was bringing up specific design details
(dropping CFF, what OS/2 metrics are needed, how
formats for graphic elements should be architected),
which is putting the cart waaaaayyyy ahead of the
horse: As Adam and Vlad suggested, this topic needs to
start with a cost-benefit analysis. I’d expand that a
bit: any work to start in this direction would need a
carefully thought-out business case _<i>and</i>_
strategic roadmap that can convince a broad range of
vendors, including most or all the majors, that there
will be beneficial ROI and a feasible path to success
that takes current realities into consideration. (Do I
sound like a PM?) Engineering is first of all a matter
of addressing real public or business problems or
opportunities. Without that, technical design is
nothing more than a science project.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">And
until vendors have bought into a business case and
strategic roadmap, talk of a _<i>hugely</i>_
disruptive change (which is what is being discussed)
is counter-productive: at best, a noisy distraction;
and at worst, perceived as intended to create discord
and new font wars.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I’m
all for designing a new and better mousetrap, and I’d
be in favour of discussions that explore business case
and possible paths to success. But I don’t think this
email thread is net helping move toward that. Let’s
progress one step at a time, as generally agreed, in
the TFCG.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Peter<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b>
Peter Constable
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 11, 2020 3:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> mpeg-otspec <<a
href="mailto:mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [MPEG-OTSPEC] Introducing
breaking changes into the spec (was: RE:
[EXTERNAL] Proposal to deprecate derived search
values)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-CA">I really hope we’re not going to
try to define some entirely new font format by
email.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-CA"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-CA"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="EN-CA">Peter</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
mpeg-otspec mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at</a><br>
<a
href="https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/psJ8Cn5oXgsGqJ0LSJJ-5Z"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.aau.at/mailman/listinfo/mpeg-otspec</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
mpeg-otspec mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at">mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.aau.at/mailman/listinfo/mpeg-otspec">https://lists.aau.at/mailman/listinfo/mpeg-otspec</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
John Hudson
Tiro Typeworks Ltd <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.tiro.com">www.tiro.com</a>
Salish Sea, BC <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tiro@tiro.com">tiro@tiro.com</a>
NOTE: In the interests of productivity, I am currently
dealing with email on only two days per week, usually
Monday and Thursday unless this schedule is disrupted
by travel. If you need to contact me urgently, please
use some other method of communication. Thank you.</pre>
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