<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Helvetica;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"MS Gothic";
panose-1:2 11 6 9 7 2 5 8 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cordia New";
panose-1:2 11 3 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@MS Gothic";
panose-1:2 11 6 9 7 2 5 8 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.gmail-m-2049599403435262588gmail-il
{mso-style-name:gmail-m_-2049599403435262588gmail-il;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks, that’s very helpful.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Peter<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> mpeg-otspec <mpeg-otspec-bounces@lists.aau.at> <b>
On Behalf Of </b>MURATA Makoto<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 28, 2020 4:05 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> mpeg-otspec <mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [MPEG-OTSPEC] fonts and SC34 (was RE: To add some more perspective<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Peter,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">ISO/IEC 9541 dates back to the pre-Unicode era. It was <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">started by Ed Simura of Xerox. It failed and Unicode won.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">As a result, 9541 became paperware without implementations. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The WG that did 9541 was disbanded. I guess that 9541 <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">will be withdrawn by systematic reviews.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">SC34 does not have any important font-related projects <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">obviously because OFF went to SC29. Nevertheless, <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">fonts are in the scope of SC34.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Makoto<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">2020<span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">年</span>9<span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">月</span>28<span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">日</span>(<span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">月</span>) 15:48 Peter Constable <<a href="mailto:pgcon6@msn.com">pgcon6@msn.com</a>>:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b>From:</b> mpeg-otspec <<a href="mailto:mpeg-otspec-bounces@lists.aau.at" target="_blank">mpeg-otspec-bounces@lists.aau.at</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>MURATA Makoto<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, September 27, 2020 2:26 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">>I would say any organization other than JTC1/SC29<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">would work. Most people in SC29 (MPEG and JPEG) <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">have no interest in fonts.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Murata-san: You’ve mentioned that “Fonts are in <a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fprotect-us.mimecast.com%2Fs%2FOZCyCER2v0u3NXYqiNOqwj&data=02%7C01%7C%7C161ee5883707427d0dc608d8639e7617%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637368879519256701&sdata=Hb52MkX%2BfAX17ETpWzIZ33ltmEOxc4RuK%2F0dUU59Nnk%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">the
scope of <span class="gmail-m-2049599403435262588gmail-il"><span style="text-decoration:none">SC34</span></span></a>.” I’m aware that SC34 has a history with fonts with the ISO/IEC 9541 family of standards that goes back to 1991. The stated scope of 9541 is,
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">“<a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iso.org%2Fobp%2Fui%2F%23iso%3Astd%3Aiso-iec%3A9541%3Aen&data=02%7C01%7C%7C161ee5883707427d0dc608d8639e7617%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637368879519256701&sdata=Y8kPnJGM6Tf7M8bJeDROCnatijm5yaNqkjyTze39BYE%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#013568;background:white;text-decoration:none">ISO/IEC 9541</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black;background:white"> specifies
the architecture of font resources, as well as the formats for font interchange among information processing systems.</span>”
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">However, I’ve never, ever seen *<b>anything</b>* that references any of the 9541 standards—neither a product or another standard or specification.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Nor is there much available info, apart from purchasing the standards. There isn’t any Wikipedia article or any other web resource mentioning what the standards are or where they’re
used apart from the ISO site. Even the preview is provided by ISO only for part 4.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">ISO/IEC 9541-4:2009 discusses harmonization with OFF. In its intro, it says,
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">“<a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iso.org%2Fobp%2Fui%2F%23iso%3Astd%3Aiso-iec%3A9541%3Aen&data=02%7C01%7C%7C161ee5883707427d0dc608d8639e7617%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637368879519266695&sdata=VoYYTnkqhhQfofq4TlVEYhwg1KUCyitrCsnaWPoZIcc%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#013568;background:white;text-decoration:none">ISO/IEC 9541</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black;background:white"> is
a font information interchange standard and is designed to be independent of any concrete font file format. The Open Font Format (</span><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iso.org%2Fobp%2Fui%2F%23iso%3Astd%3Aiso-iec%3A14496%3A-22%3Aen&data=02%7C01%7C%7C161ee5883707427d0dc608d8639e7617%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637368879519266695&sdata=q4u5%2FpGldhPgy73NSMFcNmFJxZN9gag0nGQeY1hycxo%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#013568;background:white;text-decoration:none">ISO/IEC 14496-22</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black;background:white">)
is a font file format specification that is based on the TrueType font file format. With regard to the handling and utilization of the typographic properties stored in OFF file, </span><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iso.org%2Fobp%2Fui%2F%23iso%3Astd%3Aiso-iec%3A14496%3A-22%3Aen&data=02%7C01%7C%7C161ee5883707427d0dc608d8639e7617%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637368879519276689&sdata=%2BPvA0G%2BbzN0%2F53lzoPiKKGcSLiRL8NFkwbcVDSgPpk8%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#013568;background:white;text-decoration:none">ISO/IEC 14496-22</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black;background:white"> describes
the implementations on Microsoft Windows or IBM OS/2 only. Therefore, </span><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iso.org%2Fobp%2Fui%2F%23iso%3Astd%3Aiso-iec%3A14496%3A-22%3Aen&data=02%7C01%7C%7C161ee5883707427d0dc608d8639e7617%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637368879519276689&sdata=%2BPvA0G%2BbzN0%2F53lzoPiKKGcSLiRL8NFkwbcVDSgPpk8%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#013568;background:white;text-decoration:none">ISO/IEC 14496-22</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black;background:white"> does
not specify the method for defining a font resource in </span><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iso.org%2Fobp%2Fui%2F%23iso%3Astd%3Aiso-iec%3A9541%3Aen&data=02%7C01%7C%7C161ee5883707427d0dc608d8639e7617%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637368879519286690&sdata=ELdDZ5Hj10niihABkdktgxDQzs5ChFCYLapzs6zdM70%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#013568;background:white;text-decoration:none">ISO/IEC 9541</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black;background:white"> architectures
from a given OFF file, because it is out of the scope. </span><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iso.org%2Fobp%2Fui%2F%23iso%3Astd%3Aiso-iec%3A9541%3A-4%3Aen&data=02%7C01%7C%7C161ee5883707427d0dc608d8639e7617%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637368879519286690&sdata=JnHrBfE33lOR6%2FtT5Qr%2FdmB3N5iJGBvTonP4Jmrx%2FTU%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#013568;background:white;text-decoration:none">ISO/IEC 9541-4</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black;background:white"> fills
the gap between OFF file and font resource in </span><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iso.org%2Fobp%2Fui%2F%23iso%3Astd%3Aiso-iec%3A9541%3Aen&data=02%7C01%7C%7C161ee5883707427d0dc608d8639e7617%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637368879519286690&sdata=ELdDZ5Hj10niihABkdktgxDQzs5ChFCYLapzs6zdM70%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#013568;background:white;text-decoration:none">ISO/IEC 9541</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black;background:white">.</span>”<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Even in 2009, I don’t think this was accurate since OFF was implemented in many more products than just Microsoft Windows and IBM OS/2.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I found a WG2 draft for 9541-3 Amd 2, but that just seemed to provide more information “for the harmonization of ISO/IEC 9541 to Open Font Format”. It talks about SGML (ISO 8879)
as an interchange format, though that seems it would be a bit like saying that the interchange format for Open Office XML is, well, XML.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">So, it’s all been a very big mystery to me. I’m sure there must be useful information that the 9541 standards provide that OFF does not provide and that they are, therefore, used
_<i>somewhere</i>_, just not something I’m familiar with.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I wonder if you could shed additional light?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Peter Constable<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
mpeg-otspec mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at" target="_blank">mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at</a><br>
<a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.aau.at%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmpeg-otspec&data=02%7C01%7C%7C161ee5883707427d0dc608d8639e7617%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637368879519296675&sdata=6Uwvuv4TAgD6IHFvDPButdrMwUexys84Yw049zq2iy0%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://lists.aau.at/mailman/listinfo/mpeg-otspec</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Makoto<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>