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.quote { margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em; border-left: 5px #ebebeb solid; padding-left: 0.3em; }--></style></head><body><div>If you aware the ISO Code of Conduct, please respect the chair of this AHG and behave in a professional manner. </div><div><br /></div><div>Please do whatever you would like to do but limit posting any information not relevant to this AHG. If you have any concerns about SC 29's operation then please raise it to the relevant people and committee. Opening what has happened in SC29 and discussing it here is absolutely not acceptable.</div>
<div><br /></div><div id="signature_old"><div>Sincerely,</div><div>Young</div><div><br /></div></div><div><br /></div>
<div>------ Original Message ------</div>
<div>From: "MURATA Makoto" <<a href="mailto:eb2m-mrt@asahi-net.or.jp">eb2m-mrt@asahi-net.or.jp</a>></div>
<div>To: "Youngkwon Lim" <<a href="mailto:yklwhite@gmail.com">yklwhite@gmail.com</a>></div>
<div>Cc: "Levantovsky, Vladimir" <<a href="mailto:Vladimir.Levantovsky@monotype.com">Vladimir.Levantovsky@monotype.com</a>>; "mpeg-otspec" <<a href="mailto:mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at">mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at</a>></div>
<div>Sent: 09/30/20 18:42:01</div>
<div>Subject: Re: [MPEG-OTSPEC] Agendas and minutes of the Font AHG</div><div><br /></div>
<div id="xd8a6ac8889fb4f8"><blockquote cite="CALvn5EAXQmbcn8UOtKNqL-3CpmY6V+wGNPn2qUhXJzp0_2SLFg@mail.gmail.com" type="cite" class="cite2">
<div dir="ltr">Youngkwon,<div><br /></div><div>I am well aware the ISO code of conduct. It </div><div>is here. <a href="https://www.iso.org/files/live/sites/isoorg/files/store/en/PUB100397.pdf">https://www.iso.org/files/live/sites/isoorg/files/store/en/PUB100397.pdf</a></div><div><br /></div><div>My first concern is about the absence of SC29 </div><div>numbered documents about important discussion </div><div>topics relevant to OFF. This is a fact. I am going </div><div>to study WG11 numbered documents as well.</div><div><br /></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Makoto</div><div><br /></div><div><br /><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">2020年10月1日(木) 8:08 Youngkwon Lim <<a href="mailto:yklwhite@gmail.com">yklwhite@gmail.com</a>>:<br /></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div>Dear MURATA-san,</div><div><br /></div><div>I would like to remind you the ISO code of conduct when you participate this AHG. </div><div><br /></div><div>In addition, more importantly, I have serious concern about your first concern as it is not based on any facts and not even relevant to the AHG discussion. It is a matter for SC 29.</div><div id="m_-8779379779266517084gmail-m_-3570523828836739343signature_old"><br /><div>Sincerely,</div><div>Young</div><div><br /></div></div><div><br /></div>
<div>------ Original Message ------</div>
<div>From: "MURATA Makoto" <<a href="mailto:eb2m-mrt@asahi-net.or.jp">eb2m-mrt@asahi-net.or.jp</a>></div>
<div>To: "Levantovsky, Vladimir" <<a href="mailto:Vladimir.Levantovsky@monotype.com">Vladimir.Levantovsky@monotype.com</a>></div>
<div>Cc: "mpeg-otspec" <<a href="mailto:mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at">mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at</a>></div>
<div>Sent: 09/30/20 17:42:57</div>
<div>Subject: Re: [MPEG-OTSPEC] Agendas and minutes of the Font AHG</div><div><br /></div>
<div id="m_-8779379779266517084gmail-m_-3570523828836739343x74aa4f19e354434"><blockquote cite="http://CALvn5EBQioskVDUGKSGimsjoj3R47M7eSzvrBeJfjd=XvOMb+Q@mail.gmail.com" type="cite" class="cite">
<div dir="ltr">I have two concerns.<div><br /></div><div>First, do P-members of SC29 not belonging to the </div><div>Font AHG have access to important information? </div><div>If nothing except balloted texts is available, national </div><div>bodies are not well informed. For example, </div><div>was India well informed when some decisions </div><div>in the Font AHG are very relevant to them?</div><div><br /></div><div>Second, how consensus has been declared in </div><div>the Font AHG? </div><div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><br /></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">> [Note: Consensus is defined as general agreement, characterised by</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">> the absence of </span><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">sustained</span><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"> </span><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">opposition</span><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"> to substantial issues by any</span><br style="color:rgb(80,0,80)" /><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">> important part of the concerned interests and by a process that</span><br style="color:rgb(80,0,80)" /><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">> involves seeking to take into account the views of all parties</span><br style="color:rgb(80,0,80)" /><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">> concerned and to reconcile any conflicting arguments. Consensus need</span><br style="color:rgb(80,0,80)" /><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">> not imply unanimity. (ISO/IEC Guide 2:1996)]</span><br style="color:rgb(80,0,80)" /><br />If few agendas and minutes are available and </div><div>everything is recorded as part of AHG reports, </div><div>(and when some members of the AHG </div><div>still oppose to "consensus"), I think that it </div><div>is hard to defend consensus in the past.</div><div><br /></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Makoto</div><div><br /></div><div> <br /></div><br /><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">2020年10月1日(木) 4:24 Levantovsky, Vladimir <<a href="mailto:Vladimir.Levantovsky@monotype.com">Vladimir.Levantovsky@monotype.com</a>>:<br /></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">AHG on Font Format conducts its business online via email list and shared documents (either proposals shared by their authors or WG public output documents shared
with AHG members for review. The AHG reports are provided for each WG meeting and summarize AHG activities.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">The AHG typically does not conduct any work via meetings (unless this is specifically indicated as part of the mandate), so the fact that you couldn’t find any
“minutes” or “resolutions” isn’t a surprise – by the very nature of our work we submit recommendations to the WG (as part of the AHG report), but we do not make resolutions (like WGs do).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hope this helps,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Vladimir<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> mpeg-otspec <<a href="mailto:mpeg-otspec-bounces@lists.aau.at">mpeg-otspec-bounces@lists.aau.at</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>MURATA Makoto<br />
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 29, 2020 11:59 PM<br />
<b>To:</b> mpeg-otspec <<a href="mailto:mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at">mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at</a>><br />
<b>Subject:</b> [MPEG-OTSPEC] Agendas and minutes of the Font AHG<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Folks,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am investigating the email archive available <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">at <a href="https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/I0l-CDk2rQtBjx7gfW7Vbd/">https://lists.aau.at/pipermail/mpeg-otspec/</a>.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I searched for "agenda", "minutes", and "report".<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">They appear in the email archive several times. A <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">few of them are available as attachments. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">But the others are no longer available at the <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Yahoo ML archive.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">There are some AHG reports (as part of emails), <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">but they do not look like minutes or resolutions <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">of the AHG. As the convenor of SC34/WG4, <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I write reports but they are not considered as <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">authoritative documents. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The document archive of WG11 at <a href="https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/DrorCER2v0uW1qwRswIBOY">https://isotc.iso.org</a> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">is also gone.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I will contact the SC29 secretariat and try to find <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">more.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Makoto<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">2020<span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">年</span>9<span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">月</span>27<span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">日</span>(<span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">日</span>) 17:44 MURATA Makoto <<a href="mailto:eb2m-mrt@asahi-net.or.jp">eb2m-mrt@asahi-net.or.jp</a>>:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Folks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The document repository of SC29 has records of ballots <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">in the past. I downloaded the summaries of 16 ballots<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">related to OFF and had a quick look at them.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">All countries except US have always said <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">YES without comments. There are a few <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">exceptions, but they are one-paragraph <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">editorial comments attached to Yes. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">It is only US that has made non-trivial comments.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Although there appear to be different opinions around <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">color fonts, I find no discussion documents in the SC29 <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">document repository about them. I might be <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">missing something since the document archive of <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">WG11 is not available now. I will contact the SC29 <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">committee officer about this.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Makoto<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all" />
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Makoto<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote></div></div><br clear="all" /><div><br /></div>-- <br /><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>Regards,</div><div>Makoto</div></div></div>
</blockquote></div>
</div>_______________________________________________<br />
mpeg-otspec mailing list<br />
<a href="mailto:mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at">mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at</a><br />
<a href="https://lists.aau.at/mailman/listinfo/mpeg-otspec" rel="noreferrer">https://lists.aau.at/mailman/listinfo/mpeg-otspec</a><br />
</blockquote></div></div></div><br clear="all" /><div><br /></div>-- <br /><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>Regards,</div><div>Makoto</div></div></div>
</blockquote></div>
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