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.quote { margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em; border-left: 5px #ebebeb solid; padding-left: 0.3em; }--></style></head><body><div>Dear Behdad,</div><div><br /></div><div>As an experts from Korea participating WG 3, I can confirmed that I have been fully informed about what has been discussed and decided by this AHG for many years so far. </div><div id="signature_old"><br /><div>Sincerely,</div><div>Young</div><div><br /></div></div><div><br /></div>
<div>------ Original Message ------</div>
<div>From: "Behdad Esfahbod" <<a href="mailto:behdad@behdad.org">behdad@behdad.org</a>></div>
<div>To: "MURATA Makoto" <<a href="mailto:eb2m-mrt@asahi-net.or.jp">eb2m-mrt@asahi-net.or.jp</a>></div>
<div>Cc: "mpeg-otspec" <<a href="mailto:mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at">mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at</a>></div>
<div>Sent: 09/30/20 21:29:02</div>
<div>Subject: Re: [MPEG-OTSPEC] Agendas and minutes of the Font AHG</div><div><br /></div>
<div id="x4828a4dcb82540a"><blockquote cite="CAF63+7UxOWWMjvHsRJEVrr0i+qLQcSQyk_P=pys7MTZfZsLMZQ@mail.gmail.com" type="cite" class="cite2">
<div dir="auto">As I've noted and others have noted on this list as well, the bulk of the technical discussions of the AHG happen in private Unicode mailing lists and closed meetings.<div dir="auto"><br /></div><div dir="auto">The full discussion nor decision-making process nor the rejected proposals are visible AT ALL to any ISO entity or voting member. Not WG3. Not SC29. Not JTC1.</div><div dir="auto"><br /></div><div dir="auto">And not to India. Not to Pakistan. Not to China, Japan, or Korea. Or Canada. Or any other country for that matter.</div><div dir="auto"><br /></div><div dir="auto">behdad</div></div><br /><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 6:50 PM MURATA Makoto <<a href="mailto:eb2m-mrt@asahi-net.or.jp">eb2m-mrt@asahi-net.or.jp</a>> wrote:<br /></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Vlad,<br />
<br />
> What “important documents”? The only documents we worked on were either output WG documents made available for public review, or proposals by AHG members that were submitted as WG input contributions, or technical issues that we discussed before offering them as ballot comments. In ALL of those cases, the documents were submitted to the WG _as input_!<br />
<br />
You think that all important documents are made<br />
available to WG11 probably as numbered documents.<br />
I understand. Will check.<br />
<br />
Regards,<br />
Makoto<br />
<br />
><br />
> Regards,<br />
> Makoto<br />
><br />
><br />
><br />
> ><br />
> > Sincerely,<br />
> > Young<br />
> ><br />
> ><br />
> > ------ Original Message ------<br />
> > From: "MURATA Makoto" <<a href="mailto:eb2m-mrt@asahi-net.or.jp" rel="noreferrer">eb2m-mrt@asahi-net.or.jp</a>><br />
> > To: "Youngkwon Lim" <<a href="mailto:yklwhite@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer">yklwhite@gmail.com</a>><br />
> > Cc: "Levantovsky, Vladimir" <<a href="mailto:Vladimir.Levantovsky@monotype.com" rel="noreferrer">Vladimir.Levantovsky@monotype.com</a>>; "mpeg-otspec" <<a href="mailto:mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at" rel="noreferrer">mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at</a>><br />
> > Sent: 09/30/20 18:42:01<br />
> > Subject: Re: [MPEG-OTSPEC] Agendas and minutes of the Font AHG<br />
> ><br />
> > Youngkwon,<br />
> ><br />
> > I am well aware the ISO code of conduct. It<br />
> > is here. <a href="https://www.iso.org/files/live/sites/isoorg/files/store/en/PUB100397.pdf" rel="noreferrer noreferrer">https://www.iso.org/files/live/sites/isoorg/files/store/en/PUB100397.pdf</a><br />
> ><br />
> > My first concern is about the absence of SC29<br />
> > numbered documents about important discussion<br />
> > topics relevant to OFF. This is a fact. I am going<br />
> > to study WG11 numbered documents as well.<br />
> ><br />
> > Regards,<br />
> > Makoto<br />
> ><br />
> ><br />
> > 2020年10月1日(木) 8:08 Youngkwon Lim <<a href="mailto:yklwhite@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer">yklwhite@gmail.com</a>>:<br />
> >><br />
> >> Dear MURATA-san,<br />
> >><br />
> >> I would like to remind you the ISO code of conduct when you participate this AHG.<br />
> >><br />
> >> In addition, more importantly, I have serious concern about your first concern as it is not based on any facts and not even relevant to the AHG discussion. It is a matter for SC 29.<br />
> >><br />
> >> Sincerely,<br />
> >> Young<br />
> >><br />
> >><br />
> >> ------ Original Message ------<br />
> >> From: "MURATA Makoto" <<a href="mailto:eb2m-mrt@asahi-net.or.jp" rel="noreferrer">eb2m-mrt@asahi-net.or.jp</a>><br />
> >> To: "Levantovsky, Vladimir" <<a href="mailto:Vladimir.Levantovsky@monotype.com" rel="noreferrer">Vladimir.Levantovsky@monotype.com</a>><br />
> >> Cc: "mpeg-otspec" <<a href="mailto:mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at" rel="noreferrer">mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at</a>><br />
> >> Sent: 09/30/20 17:42:57<br />
> >> Subject: Re: [MPEG-OTSPEC] Agendas and minutes of the Font AHG<br />
> >><br />
> >> I have two concerns.<br />
> >><br />
> >> First, do P-members of SC29 not belonging to the<br />
> >> Font AHG have access to important information?<br />
> >> If nothing except balloted texts is available, national<br />
> >> bodies are not well informed. For example,<br />
> >> was India well informed when some decisions<br />
> >> in the Font AHG are very relevant to them?<br />
> >><br />
> >> Second, how consensus has been declared in<br />
> >> the Font AHG?<br />
> >><br />
> >> > [Note: Consensus is defined as general agreement, characterised by<br />
> >> > the absence of sustained opposition to substantial issues by any<br />
> >> > important part of the concerned interests and by a process that<br />
> >> > involves seeking to take into account the views of all parties<br />
> >> > concerned and to reconcile any conflicting arguments. Consensus need<br />
> >> > not imply unanimity. (ISO/IEC Guide 2:1996)]<br />
> >><br />
> >> If few agendas and minutes are available and<br />
> >> everything is recorded as part of AHG reports,<br />
> >> (and when some members of the AHG<br />
> >> still oppose to "consensus"), I think that it<br />
> >> is hard to defend consensus in the past.<br />
> >><br />
> >> Regards,<br />
> >> Makoto<br />
> >><br />
> >><br />
> >><br />
> >> 2020年10月1日(木) 4:24 Levantovsky, Vladimir <<a href="mailto:Vladimir.Levantovsky@monotype.com" rel="noreferrer">Vladimir.Levantovsky@monotype.com</a>>:<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> AHG on Font Format conducts its business online via email list and shared documents (either proposals shared by their authors or WG public output documents shared with AHG members for review. The AHG reports are provided for each WG meeting and summarize AHG activities.<br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>> The AHG typically does not conduct any work via meetings (unless this is specifically indicated as part of the mandate), so the fact that you couldn’t find any “minutes” or “resolutions” isn’t a surprise – by the very nature of our work we submit recommendations to the WG (as part of the AHG report), but we do not make resolutions (like WGs do).<br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>> Hope this helps,<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> Vladimir<br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>> From: mpeg-otspec <<a href="mailto:mpeg-otspec-bounces@lists.aau.at" rel="noreferrer">mpeg-otspec-bounces@lists.aau.at</a>> On Behalf Of MURATA Makoto<br />
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 11:59 PM<br />
> >>> To: mpeg-otspec <<a href="mailto:mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at" rel="noreferrer">mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at</a>><br />
> >>> Subject: [MPEG-OTSPEC] Agendas and minutes of the Font AHG<br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>> Folks,<br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>> I am investigating the email archive available<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> at <a href="https://lists.aau.at/pipermail/mpeg-otspec/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer">https://lists.aau.at/pipermail/mpeg-otspec/</a>.<br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>> I searched for "agenda", "minutes", and "report".<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> They appear in the email archive several times. A<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> few of them are available as attachments.<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> But the others are no longer available at the<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> Yahoo ML archive.<br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>> There are some AHG reports (as part of emails),<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> but they do not look like minutes or resolutions<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> of the AHG. As the convenor of SC34/WG4,<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> I write reports but they are not considered as<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> authoritative documents.<br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>> The document archive of WG11 at <a href="https://isotc.iso.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer">https://isotc.iso.org</a><br />
> >>><br />
> >>> is also gone.<br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>> I will contact the SC29 secretariat and try to find<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> more.<br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>> Regards,<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> Makoto<br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>> 2020年9月27日(日) 17:44 MURATA Makoto <<a href="mailto:eb2m-mrt@asahi-net.or.jp" rel="noreferrer">eb2m-mrt@asahi-net.or.jp</a>>:<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> Folks,<br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>> The document repository of SC29 has records of ballots<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> in the past. I downloaded the summaries of 16 ballots<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> related to OFF and had a quick look at them.<br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>> All countries except US have always said<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> YES without comments. There are a few<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> exceptions, but they are one-paragraph<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> editorial comments attached to Yes.<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> It is only US that has made non-trivial comments.<br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>> Although there appear to be different opinions around<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> color fonts, I find no discussion documents in the SC29<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> document repository about them. I might be<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> missing something since the document archive of<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> WG11 is not available now. I will contact the SC29<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> committee officer about this.<br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>> --<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> Regards,<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> Makoto<br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>><br />
> >>> --<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> Regards,<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> Makoto<br />
> >>><br />
> >>> _______________________________________________<br />
> >>> mpeg-otspec mailing list<br />
> >>> <a href="mailto:mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at" rel="noreferrer">mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at</a><br />
> >>> <a href="https://lists.aau.at/mailman/listinfo/mpeg-otspec" rel="noreferrer noreferrer">https://lists.aau.at/mailman/listinfo/mpeg-otspec</a><br />
> >><br />
> >><br />
> >><br />
> >> --<br />
> >> Regards,<br />
> >> Makoto<br />
> >><br />
> >> _______________________________________________<br />
> >> mpeg-otspec mailing list<br />
> >> <a href="mailto:mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at" rel="noreferrer">mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at</a><br />
> >> <a href="https://lists.aau.at/mailman/listinfo/mpeg-otspec" rel="noreferrer noreferrer">https://lists.aau.at/mailman/listinfo/mpeg-otspec</a><br />
> ><br />
> ><br />
> ><br />
> > --<br />
> > Regards,<br />
> > Makoto<br />
> ><br />
> > _______________________________________________<br />
> > mpeg-otspec mailing list<br />
> > <a href="mailto:mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at" rel="noreferrer">mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at</a><br />
> > <a href="https://lists.aau.at/mailman/listinfo/mpeg-otspec" rel="noreferrer noreferrer">https://lists.aau.at/mailman/listinfo/mpeg-otspec</a><br />
><br />
><br />
><br />
> --<br />
> Regards,<br />
> Makoto<br />
> _______________________________________________<br />
> mpeg-otspec mailing list<br />
> <a href="mailto:mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at" rel="noreferrer">mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at</a><br />
> <a href="https://lists.aau.at/mailman/listinfo/mpeg-otspec" rel="noreferrer noreferrer">https://lists.aau.at/mailman/listinfo/mpeg-otspec</a><br />
><br />
> _______________________________________________<br />
> mpeg-otspec mailing list<br />
> <a href="mailto:mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at" rel="noreferrer">mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at</a><br />
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<br />
<br />
<br />
-- <br />
Regards,<br />
Makoto<br />
_______________________________________________<br />
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