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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">On Saturday, October 3, 2020 4:55 AM Caleb Maclennan wrote:<br>
<br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">On Sat, Oct 3, 2020 at 1:23 AM MURATA Makoto <<a href="mailto:eb2m-mrt@asahi-net.or.jp">eb2m-mrt@asahi-net.or.jp</a>> wrote:<br>
> I think that synchronization with OT should not be mentioned in<br>
> this AHG.<br>
<br>
Why not? It seems quite relevant to me. Even if I don't *like* the<br>
current process and the black-box stages it involves, the current<br>
defacto way the MOFF (MPEG Open Font Format) spec actually gets<br>
updated is through tracking changes to MSOT (Microsoft OpenType).<br>
They are still (rightfully) in a position to do whatever they want<br>
with their own spec for internal use and pragmatically speaking the<br>
most effective way we have to get things fixed in OFF is by appealing<br>
to M$ as a benevolant dictator that can actually change their own<br>
spec and pretty significant weight to get their changes rubber<br>
stamped into OFF (since keeping them in sync is kind of the deal).<br>
<br>
<span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I think it’s universally true that anyone who is a major implementer of the OFF/OpenType spec is also in a position to innovate and “do whatever they want”, which
includes doing something new as a proof of concept, before one is in position to make a proposal for spec amendment to be considered. However, saying that the de-facto way the OFF spec actually gets updated is through tracking changes to MSOT is inaccurate
– for many years this has been a two-way street. Many times, a proposal was brought to the AHG list that ended up being incorporated in both specs, or made its way into OFF and then to OT. I don’t need to dig deep to find examples – these recent issues filed
in the MSOT GitHub repo speak about changes being part of the last OFF amendment published in January 2020:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><a href="https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/typography-issues/issues/533">https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/typography-issues/issues/533</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><a href="https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/typography-issues/issues/535">https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/typography-issues/issues/535</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><a href="https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/typography-issues/issues/536">https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/typography-issues/issues/536</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><a href="https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/typography-issues/issues/538">https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/typography-issues/issues/538</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">However bad this state of affairs is and however silly it is for M$<br>
to try to keep their cake and eat it too — as long as this is the<br>
state of things I'd much rather hear about work they are doing<br>
internally on their MSOT spec through this AHG than have the topic<br>
be made off limits. The inevitable result of that would be for the<br>
entire end-to-end process to happen in closed groups that many in<br>
the industry don't have access to even audit!<br>
<br>
<span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I believe that the spec progress is inconceivable without work first being done internally – this is where new proposals come from (COLRv1 is a good example,
and the most recent). Folks don’t come here simply because they woke up one day with a great idea, they internalize it first. And yes, anyone who comes here with a proposal that is rooted in the work done internally makes a valuable contribution to this joint
effort and potentially benefits from having their ideas reviewed in discussed by this community of experts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Now, I do agree that having two different specs describing the same technology isn’t ideal and may be confusing, especially because they use two different names
due to trademark. However, there is also a pragmatic convenience to it – having one spec publicly available online is a convenience that ISO OFF simply doesn’t offer – it’s publicly available, but only as a massive PDF file. For as long as we have a clear
understanding that our goal is to keep these two in sync [which has been the case until now, even if this sync mechanism is rather elastic] – I agree that we should continue this effort and that this discussion should not be off limits in this AHG.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Vlad<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">In short it seems very relevant to me for the sync process from<br>
MSOT→OFF to be mentioned in this AHG list. Even if some of the<br>
steps are still off limits to plebians, the fact that some of the<br>
steps are closed doesn't seem like a good reason to close off all<br>
of the process.<br>
<br>
Why do you think the OT→OFF synchronization that is both currently<br>
and historically a significant part of what the OFF is should be<br>
off limits for disccussion in this AHG?<br>
<br>
Caleb<br>
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