<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd"> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" /> </head> <body><div class="auto-created-dir-div" dir="auto" style="unicode-bidi: embed;"><style>p{margin:0}</style>Thank you for replying.<div><p><br></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;">I write to seek clarification please.</span><br></p><div><p><br></p><p>> <span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: inline !important;">You’ve described a way to organize data, but to get the functionality you described the data would be organized differently: a table that maps glyph ID sequences to string entries in the ‘name’ table.</span></p><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;"> </span><div><p>I have found the following web page.</p><p><br></p><p>https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/typography/opentype/spec/name<br></p><p><br></p><p>I am not an expert on OpenType, so as Peter mentions the 'name' table, is the implication that what I am suggesting is already implemented?</p><p><br></p><p>If not, can I suggest that for this discussion that we refer to my suggestion as a proposal for a 'text' table please?</p><p><br></p><p>I mention that use with QID emoji was just one suggested possibility and that there would be a number of other uses, even if QID emoji is never implemented. The use with QID emoji is not a central application suggestion for this proposed facility.</p><p><br></p><p>> <span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: inline !important;">It seems to me like you’re trying to propose enhancements the font format to address challenges for the QID emoji proposal. </span></p><p><span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: inline !important;"><br></span></p><p><span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: inline !important;">No. My suggestion has various possible applications, many related to communication through the language barrier. QID emoji were not my idea, I have expressed my views about the idea in my responses to the Unicode Technical Committee's Public Review.</span></p><p><span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: inline !important;"><br></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;">https://www.unicode.org/review/pri408/</span><br></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></span></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;">My own research is mostly on localizable sentences and their applications, together with some research on The Mariposa System of abstract emoji for assisting communication through the language barrier when using emoji.</span></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></span></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;">Although emoji are interesting, from my perspective they do not have anything like the great potential for communication through the language barrier as does the localizable sentence invention. In particular, many pictorial emoji proposals tend to be deliberately imprecise as regards meaning and implied meaning of an emoji, yet localizable sentences characters are very deliberately precise as to meaning so as to provide high provenance as to meaning in communication through the language barrier.</span></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></span></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;">http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~ngo/</span><br></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></span></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;">In particular, the following slide show was produced for the United Kingdom National Body to forward to the ISO/TC 37 committee.</span></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></span></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;">http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~ngo/slide_show_about_localizable_sentences.pdf</span></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></span></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;">For some recent glyph designs for The Mariposa System, please see page 5 of the following thread, starting with the fourth post on that page.</span></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></span></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;">https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/138654-artwork-for-greetings-cards/</span><br></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></span></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;">Some readers might perhaps like the designs for some localizable sentence glyphs that are near the start of the thread.</span></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></span></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;">William Overington</span></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></span></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;">Tuesday 11 May 2021</span></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></span></span></p><p><br></p><blockquote style="margin: 0 auto; padding: 0 2em; border-left:2px solid #00ADE5; white-space: pre-wrap "><br><br>------ Original Message ------<br>From: "Peter Constable" <pgcon6@msn.com><br>To: "William_J_G Overington" <wjgo_10009@btinternet.com>; "'MPEG OT Spec list'" <mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at>; "Vladimir Levantovsky" <vladimir.levantovsky@gmail.com><br>Sent: Monday, 2021 May 10 At 22:58<br>Subject: RE: [MPEG-OTSPEC] New AHG mandates and other news!<br><br> <div class="WordSection1"> <p class="MsoNormal">William, </p> <p class="MsoNormal"> </p> <p class="MsoNormal">You’ve described a way to organize data, but to get the functionality you described the data would be organized differently: a table that maps glyph ID sequences to string entries in the ‘name’ table.</p> <p class="MsoNormal"> </p> <p class="MsoNormal">But the scenario you have in mind is to use fonts as a way to carry descriptions of Unicode character sequences, and specifically QID emoji sequences—which is an idea that has been proposed but has not been approved by Unicode. Even<i> _if</i>_ the QID emoji proposal were adopted by Unicode—and it’s far from clear that it will be—, I don’t think it’s a good idea to use fonts as a vehicle for transporting descriptions of glyph ID sequences.</p> <p class="MsoNormal"> </p> <ul style="margin-top: 0.0cm;"><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left: 0.0cm;">For the QID emoji sequence scenario, Unicode strings in general are sent between applications or between devices 99.99% of the time without any font data. So, it’s very unclear that it would provide much useful benefit for that scenario.</li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left: 0.0cm;">If it is assumed that text containing QID emoji sequences would _<i>need</i>_ font data to be sent along with the text, then that raises a question of whether the QID proposal provides significant benefit over using PUA characters.</li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left: 0.0cm;">The formats added to the font would not be inherently specific to QID sequences—that is, the design suggests a much more general usage: strings describing arbitrary glyph sequences. But I don’t see any real need for such a general mechanism.</li></ul> <p class="MsoNormal"> </p> <p class="MsoNormal">It seems to me like you’re trying to propose enhancements the font format to address challenges for the QID emoji proposal. For my part, I don’t think it’s a good idea. Fonts are not the best way to solve those problems. If Unicode is going to consider the QID proposal, then proponents of the proposal need to come up with better ways to address any shortcomings in the proposal.</p> <p class="MsoNormal"> </p> <p class="MsoNormal"> </p> <p class="MsoNormal">Peter</p> <p class="MsoNormal"> </p> <div> <div style="border: none;border-top: solid rgb(225,225,225) 1.0pt;padding: 3.0pt 0.0cm 0.0cm 0.0cm;"> <p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> mpeg-otspec <<span class="wt_Email">mpeg-otspec-bounces@lists.aau.at</span><span></span>> <b> On Behalf Of </b>William_J_G Overington<br> <b>Sent:</b> May 6, 2021 8:34 AM<br> <b>To:</b> 'MPEG OT Spec list' <<span class="wt_Email">mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at</span><span></span>>; Vladimir Levantovsky <<span class="wt_Email">vladimir.levantovsky@gmail.com</span><span></span>><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [MPEG-OTSPEC] New AHG mandates and other news!</p> </div> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"> </p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">> As part of the mandate #2, we are also encouraged to start exploration activities to discuss the next round of changes that will become the basis for the new OFF 5<sup>th</sup> edition work item – your contributions to these topics (both on this list and / or new issues on <a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FMPEGGroup%2FOpenFontFormat&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7e6370fe735f49ebb32408d910a4578a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637559120296755956%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=igXd5Lph96xICJc8mh2u4eFDZnUvgtZ2ok%2Ft9ebxgdw%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"> MPEGGroup/OpenFontFormat GitHub</a>) are much appreciated.</p> <p><br> <br> </p> <p>Would it be good to have a new table which is similar in structure to a GSUB table but which can have in the part to the left of each -> either one postscript name or a sequence of postscript names and to the right of each -> a string of Unicode text characters in UTF-16 format - that is, a string of text characters as one might have in, say, a computer program written in Pascal, for the avoidance of doubt specifically not a sequence of postscript names.</p> <p><br> <br> </p> <p>I am thinking that this could have various uses, for example, for text to speech in a language of the font designer's choice, transliteration, on-screen explanation of emoji - including perhaps the potentially millions of QID emoji that may soon become encoded into Unicode, so that a font that supports just a few QID emoji could also include an explanation of them in a language of the font designer's choice. The output of the table could be used for any of screen display, tooltip display, speech output. The use of the table in a font would be optional and could be simply ignored by an application that does not support it: also an application that does support the use of the information that is in the table could have a button to switch that use on or off.</p> <p><br> <br> </p> <p>William Overington</p> <p><br> <br> </p> <p>Thursday 6 May 2021</p> <p><br> <br> </p> </div> </div> </blockquote></div></div></div></div></body></html>