<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd"> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" /> </head> <body><div class="auto-created-dir-div" dir="auto" style="unicode-bidi: embed;"><style>p{margin:0}</style>To <span style="white-space: pre-wrap;">"'MPEG OT Spec list'" <mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at></span><div><p><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></span></p><p><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;">Hello Peter</span></p><p><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></span></p>Thank you for taking the time to explain. I appreciate your help.</div><p><br></p><p>> <span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: inline !important;">But it isn’t really practical from a linguistic perspective. It assumes that semantic propositions can be defined that can always be used as translation pivots between two arbitrary languages, and that those can be formulated independent of any larger discourse context.</span></p><p><span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: inline !important;"><br></span></p><p><span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: inline !important;">I was unfamiliar with the term "translation pivots" as such.</span></p><p><span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: inline !important;"><br></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pivot_language</span><br></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></span></span></p><p><span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: inline !important;">However, upon investigation I found that I a> m familiar with the concept, just not under that name.</span><br></p><p><br></p><p><span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: inline !important;">> It’s also not scoped: Adapting examples from your slides, I might want to send a message to the hotel saying, “If my dog has hair rather than fur, and doesn’t shed, will I be able to keep my dog in your hotel rooms?” There are an unbounded number of semantic propositions someone might want to communicate in your hotel scenario. There’s no clear way to scope.</span></p><p><span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: inline !important;"><br></span></p><p><span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: inline !important;">Yes, exactly.</span></p><p><span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: inline !important;"><br></span></p><p><span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: inline !important;">I have long recognised that. I have always been suggesting that localizable sentences can be used for communication through the language barrier in some particular circumstances. I have not advocated the invention for every possible use.</span></p><p><span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: inline !important;"><br></span></p><p><span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: inline !important;">The slide presentation is about finding information through the language barrier after a disaster. I opine that the invention would be good for that application.</span></p><p><span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: inline !important;"><br></span></p><p><span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: inline !important;">This limitation of not encoding every possible sentence is applied upon in Chapter 10 of my first novel.</span><br></p><p><span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: inline !important;"><br></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;">http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~ngo/localizable_sentences_the_novel_chapter_010.pdf</span><br></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></span></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;">However, emoji cannot depict every possible image that can exist, yet emoji are being encoded for some pictures.</span></span></p><p><br></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;">Also, clip art cannot depict every possible image that can exist, yet clip art collections can be useful.</span></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></span></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;">I have used clip art. For example in the slide presentation that we have been discussing.</span></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></span></span></p><p><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;"> </span></span><span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: inline !important;">>> I am just told that it is 'out of scope'…</span><br></p><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;"> </span><p class="MsoNormal" style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="display: inline !important;">> That’s because Unicode is an encoding for _</span><i>characters / text elements</i><span style="display: inline !important;">_, not semantic propositions.</span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="display: inline !important;"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="display: inline !important;">Thank you for explaining.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="display: inline !important;"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="display: inline !important;">Yet what about U+1F91F?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="display: inline !important;"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="display: inline !important;">https://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/Unicode-13.0/U130-1F900.pdf</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="display: inline !important;"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="display: inline !important;">There are glyphs for the localizable sentences. There seems to me to be no reason why sequences to use those glyphs interoperably with those sequences including tag characters could not be reasonably formally accepted into regular Unicode, thereby providing robustness and formal encoding in a non-proprietary manner such that they could be used without problem or uncertainty as to provenance or intellectual property rights by any individual or organization that chooses to use them.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="display: inline !important;"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="display: inline !important;">It would seem that adding a note in the code chart explaining the meaning and its context would not be unreasonable.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="display: inline !important;"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="white-space: pre-wrap;">Now maybe I am wrong about that, and there is some reason of which I am not aware.</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="white-space: pre-wrap;">However, I opine that the way to settle the matter is to have that formally and fairly assessed by the Unicode Technical Committee, with reasons given if the idea is refused. </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="white-space: pre-wrap;"></p><p class="MsoNormal">That would seem to be the fair way and the professional way to do things.</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="display: inline !important;"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="display: inline !important;">For example, the sentence "It is spring." would have the context of "A season of the year".</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="display: inline !important;"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="display: inline !important;">I remember at one stage, though not now, an online translation facility translated into French "It is spring." to "C'est source." as in a spring of water from a hillside rather than "C'est le printemps." as desired. So the context is important as a guide to the human translator producing a sentence.dat file.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;">> </span></span><span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: inline !important;">If the idea is that the display strings for a the set of localizable sentences is resident in the receiving device, then that’s an instance of something that is frequently done: it’s very common for software running on devices to have access to lots of static strings to display messages to a user. However, fonts are not the storage mechanism used for such strings, and software vendors definitely would not want to start using fonts as a new way to store static strings for user-interface messages.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: inline !important;"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: inline !important;">So maybe the way to do localizable sentences is to use the following format that I devised. The format is such that it uses a text file that can be produced using the Microsoft WordPad program. WordPad is bundled with the Windows operating system so is widely available without needing to use additional software to produce or study the file.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: inline !important;"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: inline !important;">http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~ngo/The_Format_of_the_sentence_dot_dat_files_for_use_in_Research_on_Communication_through_the_Language_Barrier_using_encoded_Localizable_Sentences.pdf</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: inline !important;"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;">http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~ngo/localizable_sentences_research.htm</span><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;">William Overington</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;">Thursday 13 May 2021</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="display: inline !important;"><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;"><br></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style=""><br></p></div></body></html>