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<div>That's especially true in mainland China where the teaching of spoken English is generally poor (and even deprecated) and subjected to local /personal variations. Not sure what is the intended audience of this kind of standardisation - is it for non-Chinese learning Chinese as a non-native language?</div><div><br></div><div>There is also rumours that English is to be banned / deprecated / not taught in junior schools.</div><div><br></div>
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On Thursday, 29 February 2024 at 22:44:16 GMT, Hin-Tak Leung via mpeg-otspec <mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at> wrote:
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<div><font face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:16px;">For those who want to read the source material, it seems that the canonical sources for GBZ 40637 might be</span></font></div><div><font face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:16px;">https://www.chinesestandard.net/AMP/English.amp.aspx/GBZ40637-2021</span></font><br clear="none"></div><div><font face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:16px;"><br clear="none"></span></font></div><div><font face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:16px;">https://openstd.samr.gov.cn/bzgk/gb/newGbInfo?hcno=52E2DE28D439C1937EE09AE4B5AA615B</span><br clear="none"></font></div><div><font face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:16px;"><br clear="none"></span></font></div><div><font face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:16px;">For the English and Chinese version of it respectively (behind pay walls), and a somewhat reliable Chinese version available for download at:</span></font></div><div><font face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:16px;"><br clear="none"></span></font></div><div><font face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:16px;">https://archive.org/details/GB-Z40637-2021/page/n5/mode/1up</span><br clear="none"></font></div><div><font face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:16px;"><br clear="none"></span></font></div><div><font face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:16px;">I am mostly with Ken Lunde on this: transliteration itself is a work-around (trying to approximate one language's sound with another), and diacritics on transliteration is a refinement of a workaround... for actual scholarly work, the traditional way of indicating the pronunciation of a rare word in Chinese is to say "XY 切" where you indicates the starting consonant and the ending vowel with two common native words.e.g. my surname "梁"'s Cantonese pronunciation might be written down as "連揚切", where you take the consonant of the first (連"leen") and join with the ending vowel of another ("揚""yeung") to form "leung". Most people can't quite pronounce English "leung" correctly anyway, so the traditional way of annotating it as e.g. </span></font><span style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">"連揚切" would be preferable... it is somewhat a lost cause to try to standardise on hyphenation and diacritics of transliterations...</span></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><br clear="none"></div>
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On Thursday, 29 February 2024 at 14:16:26 GMT, suzuki toshiya via mpeg-otspec <mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at> wrote:
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<div><div dir="ltr">Dear Eiso, Fuji-san,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">I checked 現代漢語拼音方案2012 available at<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><a shape="rect" href="http://edu.shandong.gov.cn/attach/0/b72295c44ff442c8b333a481f524dbe9.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://edu.shandong.gov.cn/attach/0/b72295c44ff442c8b333a481f524dbe9.pdf</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">I guess, the glyphs you want to care might be:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">"a" in "ai" (哀), "uan" (弯), "Van" (冤) in 韻母表<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">"g" in "ang" (昂), "eng" (亨的韵母), "ieng" (英), "ueng" (翁), "veng" (雍) in 韻母表<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">Am I understanding correctly?<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">漢語拼音方案1958 (I'm unsure the source of this scanned image):<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><a shape="rect" href="http://www.moe.gov.cn/ewebeditor/uploadfile/2015/03/02/20150302165814246.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.moe.gov.cn/ewebeditor/uploadfile/2015/03/02/20150302165814246.pdf</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">there is no clear distinction of the typeface for "a" & "g".<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">A distinction of "a" is mentioned in the 四、声調符号, special "a" is used for 軽声,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">maybe it would be the update introduced in 2012.<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">But yet I'm unsure about the background to distinguish "g".<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">Regards,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">mpsuzuki<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">On 2024/02/29 22:28, 陈永聪 via mpeg-otspec wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Fuji-San,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Thank you for your comments. The most official materials for Hanyu Pinyin forms are 汉语拼音方案 and 现代汉语词典.<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Eiso<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> ---- Replied Message ----<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> From Takaaki Fuji 藤 貴亮<<a shape="rect" href="mailto:tfuji@morisawa.co.jp" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">tfuji@morisawa.co.jp</a>><mailto:tfuji@morisawa.co.jp><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Date 02/29/2024 下午6:45<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> To 陈永聪 <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:eisoch@126.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">eisoch@126.com</a>><mailto:eisoch@126.com><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Cc mpeg-otspec <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at</a>><mailto:mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Subject Re: [MPEG-OTSPEC] Two GSUB Proposals for OFF: 'cabp' and 'hypy'<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Dear Eiso,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> I'm just curious, but for ‘hypy’, is there any good source I can look at for the ‘official' glyph forms of Hanyu Pinyin?<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> If I understand the issue correctly, ‘hypy’ is not only about the Futura-like one-story a/g shown in Example, but also the tone marks are preferred to have a 'reverse-modulation’; while an acute is always stroked from top to bottom as a Latin accent, as a Pinyin mark it goes upwards from left to right to illustrate the second/rising tone. I imagine this conflict/divergence has long been such an issue in a dual-script situation, so switching between the two via GSUB sounds like a great improvement to me!<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Thank you,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> Takaaki Fuji<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">>> On Feb 26, 2024, at 9:38, 陈永聪 via mpeg-otspec <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">>><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">>> This is my first proposal for OFF. Please see <a shape="rect" href="http://cloud.caaph.com:10121/f/fed7bd2e3d/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://cloud.caaph.com:10121/f/fed7bd2e3d/</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">>> I suggest adding two GSUB features. 'cabp' is used to support GB/Z 40637—2021, 'hypy' is used to support the special glyphs forms used for Hanyu Pinyin.<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">>><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">>> If you have any suggestions or feedbacks, please let me know.<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">>><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">>> Regards,<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">>> Eiso_______________________________________________<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">>> mpeg-otspec mailing list<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a shape="rect" href="mailto:mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">>> <a shape="rect" href="https://lists.aau.at/mailman/listinfo/mpeg-otspec" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://lists.aau.at/mailman/listinfo/mpeg-otspec</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">> <br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">_______________________________________________<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">mpeg-otspec mailing list<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">mpeg-otspec@lists.aau.at</a><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><a shape="rect" href="https://lists.aau.at/mailman/listinfo/mpeg-otspec" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://lists.aau.at/mailman/listinfo/mpeg-otspec</a><br clear="none"></div></div>
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