FW: [mpeg-OTspec] Re: [OpenType] MS Proposal for a new Name Table ID

[Levantovsky, Vladimir]

FYI

-----Original Message-----
From: listmaster at indx.co.uk [mailto:listmaster at indx.co.uk] On Behalf Of Adam Twardoch (List)
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 6:11 PM
To: "multiple recipients of OpenType"@mail.indx.co.uk
Subject: Re: [mpeg-OTspec] Re: [OpenType] MS Proposal for a new Name Table ID

Message from OpenType list:


This may be silly but how about having some sort of "LANG" table which would reuse the basic OT script/languagesystem table, but inside the branches there would be some metainformation, used for informative purposes. This info could have a slightly complex structure, some "quality inducator" for fitness of a given script and language. And then make it *exhaustive*. Perhaps even have some nifty text comments (or even some kind of classificational info).

So rather than spoofing GSUB/GPOS with empty langsya records, we'd have a dedicated table for this. Possibly based on the OT tags, though perhaps not. A simplified PANOSE-like info could be attached to each record, on the script or langsys level. So for example in "latn/default" branch, there could be some info that the typeface is "geometric sanserif", and a "good design by itself" (or just "compatibility level"), and then in "arab/default" we could have a classification dntry that the Arabic section of the font is Kufi or Naskh and "primary script" of this typeface. And in "grek/default" branch we'd have info that the Greek letterforms in this font are "quite cursive". 

After all, in the multiscript world, all the EXISTING stylistic info about a font is SHIT. PANOSE is useless for multiscript, and there's been talks about "new classification" etc for years now -- but nothing's happening. 

If we want to help users discover, among many, a font which is "fit for a particular purpose", then we need a new structure which combines script/language info with some stylistic info. "Compatibility level/ugly/don't use unless you have to" could be one such "stylistic" info. 

A. 

Sent from my mobile phone.

On 08.01.2013, at 23:46, "John Hudson " <john at tiro.ca> wrote:

> Message from OpenType list:
> 
> 
> I'm beginning to think that two levels of information might 
> beneficially be indicated using the kind of tagging in this proposal. 
> I can think of plenty of fonts in which the information of interest is 
> script rather than language, e.g. an Indic font that contains a Latin 
> 8-bit subset for purely technical reasons and that is not intended to 
> be used to set Latin-script text. In that case, one would want to be 
> able to indicate that e.g. the Devanagari script is the intended use, 
> not particular languages using that script. The latter might be 
> secondary information if, e.g. a font is particularly intended for 
> Marathi and not suitable for Hindi.
> 
> As I understand it, the BCP 47 language tags include provision for 
> indicating script, but only as a secondary indicator applied to a 
> language tag, e.g.
> 
>       zh-Hant (Chinese written in Traditional Chinese script)
>       zh-Hans (Chinese written in Simplified Chinese script)
> 
> And for font tagging purposes this is backwards: the first -- and 
> often only -- indicator of intention needed is a script tag. This 
> suggests to me a hierarchy of script and language.
> 
> Now, this might suggest something like Adam's proposed use of existing 
> OTL tags to indicate intention, only in this case the script and 
> language system tags. I don't think this works though, because I 
> regularly include Latin kerning and other features appropriate to the 
> character set in fonts that happen to include a Latin subset, even 
> though the font is not intended for setting Latin-script text, and 
> hence have a <latn> OTL feature tree in the font. After all, even if a 
> font is not intended for setting text in a Latin-script language, the 
> occasional untransliterated English word may occur within e.g. Hindi 
> text, and should be properly displayed with appropriate kerning. Also, 
> the OTL language system tags indicate something other than language 
> (what I would call -- to use terminology in a way similar to Martin -- 
> particular writing systems whose characteristic differ from the 
> defaults of an individual font's behaviour). And, of course, the OTL 
> language system tags, other than <dflt>, indicate exceptions rather than intentions..
> 
> So I think a tagging system to indicate intentions is a good idea, but 
> think it needs to provide for both script and language. It should 
> definitely be possible to tag a script or scripts as intended use, 
> without needing to tag any languages. I'm leaning towards requesting 
> some kind of hierarchical model, because I can imagine wanting to 
> indicate something like this:
> 
>    Latin
>    Cyrillic
>     - Bosnian
> 
> Of course, Bosnian can be written in the Latin script too, but a font 
> wouldn't necessarily need to indicate specific support for this, since 
> the required characters and glyphs wouldn't differ from norms for any 
> other languages, while the Cyrillic requirements might.
> 
> 
> JH
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Tiro Typeworks        www.tiro.com
> Gulf Islands, BC      tiro at tiro.com
> 
> The criminologist's definition of 'public order crimes' comes 
> perilously close to the historian's description of 'working-class 
> leisure-time activity.'
>  - Sidney Harring, _Policing a Class Society_
> 
> 
> 
> List archive: http://www.indx.co.uk/biglistarchive/
> 
> subscribe: opentype-migration-sub at indx.co.uk
> unsubscribe: opentype-migration-unsub at indx.co.uk
> messages: opentype-migration-list at indx.co.uk
> 
> 



List archive: http://www.indx.co.uk/biglistarchive/

subscribe: opentype-migration-sub at indx.co.uk
unsubscribe: opentype-migration-unsub at indx.co.uk
messages: opentype-migration-list at indx.co.uk