[MPEG-OTSPEC] Consensus Protocol

[Peter Constable]

It's fine to interpret silence as consent or "no sustained objection" when it's reasonable to assume that parties are engaged and have noticed the call for consensus. When in a face-to-face meeting, it's fairly easy to confirm that a call for consensus has been noticed. By email or other asynch means, not so much. For most participants in this list, engaging in standards processes is not a central part of their job, and I don't think it would be uncommon at times for their main priorities to keep their attention elsewhere than this list.

In ISO process, there are balloting stages that usually/always happen by some asynch process, and P(articipating) members of a committee are expected to vote explicitly, even if abstaining. And if a vote is not received, they per ISO Procedures they will be poked and reminded:

1.7.5 If a P‑member of a technical committee or subcommittee fails to vote on an enquiry draft or final
draft International Standard prepared by the respective committee, or on a systematic review ballot
for a deliverable under the responsibility of the committee, the Chief Executive Officer shall remind the
National Body of its obligation to vote.

Granted, the AHG is not a TC or SC and comprised of NBs. But on issues having significant technical import, I think it's a good idea to consider how much input has been received, and whether there are voices that would likely be interested but who haven't responded, and then give them a poke. Not just a broad reminder to the list, but sometimes directed in particular directions. For example, if there was a proposal entailing a significant change to the CFF2 table and no input had been heard from Adobe, I think it would be a good idea to poke them to make sure they're paying attention. If they were and silently consenting, it's not costly to confirm that. Note that that's not giving anybody veto power; it's just making sure when we say there's broad consensus that it really is broadly representative.



Peter


-----Original Message-----
From: mpeg-otspec <mpeg-otspec-bounces at lists.aau.at> On Behalf Of Levantovsky, Vladimir
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 6:41 PM
To: David Singer <singer at apple.com>
Cc: mpeg-otspec <mpeg-otspec at lists.aau.at>
Subject: Re: [MPEG-OTSPEC] Consensus Protocol

Thank you David,
I think it's important to mention that there is a distinction between "approval" and "consensus" in this particular case. 
In the early part of this discussion, a question was raised about a particular case related to ballot comments: if, after multiple times the requests for comments were made, and, the question was asked to review proposed comments by the stated deadline with the specific condition clearly stated that silence will be treated as approval - can the approval be assumed if no further responses are made by stated deadline? Our long-standing practice has been that silence is indeed treated as approval, and the comments already submitted would be finalized and submitted as approved by the group.

Thank you,
Vladimir


-----Original Message-----
From: David Singer <singer at apple.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 5:45 PM
To: Levantovsky, Vladimir <Vladimir.Levantovsky at monotype.com>
Cc: Dave Crossland <dcrossland at google.com>; mpeg-otspec <mpeg-otspec at lists.aau.at>
Subject: Re: [MPEG-OTSPEC] Consensus Protocol



> On Aug 26, 2020, at 8:42 , Levantovsky, Vladimir <Vladimir.Levantovsky at monotype.com> wrote:
>  
> The long standing practice in MPEG and in this AHG group has been rooted in the simple principle that silence means approval, whatever the topic of a discussion might be. 
>  

back up: consensus is the result of asking a question, to determine consensus. Almost all groups I know use consensus for expert discussions; final approvals vary (e.g. in W3C, it’s the Director as advised by the AC, in ISO, it’s NBs, and so on).

Consensus decisions result when a clear consensus decision proposal is made, usually by the chair (e.g. “do we have consensus to eat sandwiches for lunch?”) and no-one ’sustains their objection’ (i.e. someone may say “I don’t agree, but I won’t stand in the way as I think a decision is needed”). Silence is usually taken as consent though most groups like at least some positive responses.

David Singer
Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc.

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