[MPEG-OTSPEC] Agendas and minutes of the Font AHG

Thu Oct 1 01:39:13 CEST 2020

Murata-san,

I am not really sure what are you trying to allude to … but let me remind you that:

1)      All AHG reports and any proposals we submitted as a group are available from the MPEG document management system as input contributions. If you want to look at them, you can access the system at http://wg11.sc29.org/.

2)      All output documents (working drafts, CD, DIS, FDIS) as well as dispositions of comments we received via ballots are also stored in the same system.

3)      Every time the AHG was reestablished with the new mandate issued, it was a public document providing information that allowed any interested party to join – P-member or not. Our mandates is what defines the AHG scope of work – we do not organize meetings, we do not make resolutions, we don’t have an “agenda”.

4)      The only times when AHG members were asked for a consensus decision was when either the AHG report and recommendations, or an input contribution on behalf of AHG were submitted to the WG. (Input contributions submitted by individual members do not require a consensus, but they were often shared for AHG review anyway.)

5)      Input contributions are available to all P-members. The acceptance or rejection of proposals submitted as input contributions is something that the WG decides, and every P-member has a voice – the AHG doesn’t make decisions.

6)      All “important information” available to the AHG members have been exchanged on the email reflector, which has public archive – anyone (regardless of whether they are AHG member or not) can access the archive to see our communications. If you’re trying to find an evidence of “sustained opposition to substantial issues” – you know where to look for it.

Hoping you would find it helpful,
Vladimir

From: MURATA Makoto <eb2m-mrt at asahi-net.or.jp>
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2020 6:43 PM
To: Levantovsky, Vladimir <Vladimir.Levantovsky at monotype.com>
Cc: mpeg-otspec <mpeg-otspec at lists.aau.at>
Subject: Re: [MPEG-OTSPEC] Agendas and minutes of the Font AHG

I have two concerns.

First, do P-members of SC29 not belonging to the
Font AHG have access to important information?
If nothing except balloted texts is available, national
bodies are not well informed.  For example,
was India well informed when some decisions
in the Font AHG are very relevant to them?

Second, how consensus has been declared in
the Font AHG?

> [Note:  Consensus is defined as general agreement, characterised by
> the absence of sustained opposition to substantial issues by any
> important part of the concerned interests and by a process that
> involves seeking to take into account the views of all parties
> concerned and to reconcile any conflicting arguments.  Consensus need
> not imply unanimity.  (ISO/IEC Guide 2:1996)]

If few agendas and minutes are available and
everything is recorded as part of AHG reports,
(and when some members of the AHG
still oppose to "consensus"), I think that it
is hard to defend consensus in the past.

Regards,
Makoto

2020年10月1日(木) 4:24 Levantovsky, Vladimir <Vladimir.Levantovsky at monotype.com<mailto:Vladimir.Levantovsky at monotype.com>>:
AHG on Font Format conducts its business online via email list and shared documents (either proposals shared by their authors or WG public output documents shared with AHG members for review. The AHG reports are provided for each WG meeting and summarize AHG activities.

The AHG typically does not conduct any work via meetings (unless this is specifically indicated as part of the mandate), so the fact that you couldn’t find any “minutes” or “resolutions” isn’t a surprise – by the very nature of our work we submit recommendations to the WG (as part of the AHG report), but we do not make resolutions (like WGs do).

Hope this helps,
Vladimir

From: mpeg-otspec <mpeg-otspec-bounces at lists.aau.at<mailto:mpeg-otspec-bounces at lists.aau.at>> On Behalf Of MURATA Makoto
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 11:59 PM
To: mpeg-otspec <mpeg-otspec at lists.aau.at<mailto:mpeg-otspec at lists.aau.at>>
Subject: [MPEG-OTSPEC] Agendas and minutes of the Font AHG

Folks,

I am investigating the email archive available
at https://lists.aau.at/pipermail/mpeg-otspec/<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/rdBQCXD0wrhnBQBmsVj7Bh/>.

I searched for "agenda", "minutes", and "report".
They appear in the email archive several times.  A
few of them are available as attachments.
But the others are no longer available at the
Yahoo ML archive.

There are some AHG reports (as part of emails),
but they do not look like minutes or resolutions
of the AHG.   As the convenor of SC34/WG4,
I write reports but they are not considered as
authoritative documents.

The document archive of WG11 at https://isotc.iso.org<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/8mj0CYEnxyt3k7k5s9Npia>
is also gone.

I will contact the SC29 secretariat and try to find
more.

Regards,
Makoto

2020年9月27日(日) 17:44 MURATA Makoto <eb2m-mrt at asahi-net.or.jp<mailto:eb2m-mrt at asahi-net.or.jp>>:
Folks,

The document repository of SC29 has records of ballots
in the past.  I downloaded the summaries of 16 ballots
related to OFF and had a quick look at them.

All countries except US have always said
YES without comments.  There are a few
exceptions, but they are one-paragraph
editorial comments attached to Yes.
It is only US that has made non-trivial comments.

Although there appear to be different opinions around
color fonts, I find no discussion documents in the SC29
document repository about them.  I might be
missing something since the document archive of
WG11 is not available now.  I will contact the SC29
committee officer about this.

--
Regards,
Makoto

--
Regards,
Makoto
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--
Regards,
Makoto
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