[MPEG-OTSPEC] Draft AHG report for your review

Behdad Esfahbod behdad at behdad.org
Thu Oct 8 18:03:58 CEST 2020

On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 5:31 PM Levantovsky, Vladimir <
Vladimir.Levantovsky at monotype.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday, October 7, 2020 5:54 PM Caleb Maclennan wrote:
> > Vivid, maybe, but not all rosy. There has been a concerted effort to
> turn it around, but it nearly went off the rails largely because it
> disappeared into a black box editorial process along the way.
> No, this is not how I see the events happened. There was indeed a
> concerted effort to update the proposal to account for all meaningful
> technical comments, but one member of the group decided to take a stance
> and declared his standing objections to ANY proposals discussed in this AHG
> (https://lists.aau.at/pipermail/mpeg-otspec/2020-October/002512.html),
> which is an abuse of the process. ISO Directives (
> https://www.iso.org/sites/directives/current/consolidated/index.xhtml#_idTextAnchor160)
> provide a clear definition of what constitutes a consensus:
> “consensus: General agreement, characterized by the absence of sustained
> opposition to substantial issues by any important part of the concerned
> interests and by a process that involves seeking to take into account the
> views of all parties concerned and to reconcile any conflicting arguments.
> NOTE     Consensus need not imply unanimity.”
> Based on the substantive discussions we conducted on GitHub repo and on
> this mailing list, I could have easily overturned the objection by
> _declaring_ consensus, but it wasn't necessary. There is very important
> aspect here that we all need to keep in mind (something that I mentioned on
> this list more than once) - this AHG does not make "decisions", we make
> "recommendations". The WG makes decisions based on the input submissions
> and discussions conducted by the WG members, and while WG members will
> definitely consider our recommendations, the members do not need AHG
> permission to submit their input.

This is truly wicked and indeed the problem I've been talking about.

I wrote the COLRv1 proposal originally in 2018. Then worked with multiple
people to turn it into what it is now. Those people were Dominik Rottches,
Roderick Sheeters, Ben Wagner from Skia, others who chimed in during review
periods.  This did NOT include Peter Constable.

Peter Constable then takes the technical output of our work and CHANGES it
and proposes it on this list, with my name on it. And I object. Now Vlad
frames ME as the problem and asserts HE can declare "consensus".

^------------------- That's the problem I'm trying to raise to the WG3,
SC29, and eventually JTC1.
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