[MPEG-OTSPEC] Introducing breaking changes into the spec (was: RE: [EXTERNAL] Proposal to deprecate derived search values)

[Levantovsky, Vladimir]

I agree with the sentiment Peter and Rod expressed, and I would consider this particular venue (i.e., the mpeg-otspec email list) to be a very suitable place to conduct these discussions – we just need to adopt a much more thoughtful, strategic approach to things to make sure that we have everyone included in the discussion, and invested in making it a successful endeavor.

We also need to be mindful about organizational boundaries (something I believe I already mentioned in the past). OFF work has been successfully conducted by ISO since 2002, and an attempt to divert a new font format work into a different venue would introduce an unwelcome conflict IMO, something that is more likely to be seen as a new “font war”. Given that we can develop and present a clear strategic reason and direction for the development of the entirely new font format, ISO (SC29/WG3) will definitely entertain the idea of taking on this new work item as well.

As far as FTCG is concerned, I believe we have a well-documented consensus decision (expressed both in the informal meeting minutes as “The Font and Text Community Group gathers individuals and organisations to discuss and develop specifications and implementations for technologies such as shaping and layout which operate on and at the interface between text encoding and font formats” and in the draft charter) that the FTCG work is complementary to font format development. It does NOT mean that discussions there are limited in any way – the FTCG work will undoubtedly inform and influence the decisions about new font format – we just need to be mindful that we, in essence, have one large community of people participating in two closely related activities conducted by different entities.

Thank you,
Vlad


From: mpeg-otspec <mpeg-otspec-bounces at lists.aau.at> On Behalf Of Roderick Sheeter
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2020 5:43 PM
To: Peter Constable <pgcon6 at msn.com>
Cc: mpeg-otspec <mpeg-otspec at lists.aau.at>
Subject: Re: [MPEG-OTSPEC] Introducing breaking changes into the spec (was: RE: [EXTERNAL] Proposal to deprecate derived search values)

It would be helpful to start by understanding what changes people want to make and why. One possible approach would be to simply ask people to post their thoughts and share links back to the group (perhaps CG mailing list?), inspired by the Rust call for blogs (https://blog.rust-lang.org/2019/10/29/A-call-for-blogs-2020.html<https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/lz6LCo20KjhXL7NGsVo1ki>).

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 10:02 AM Peter Constable <pgcon6 at msn.com<mailto:pgcon6 at msn.com>> wrote:
> I really hope we’re not going to try to define some entirely new font format by email.

Someone mentioned offline that my brief message, saying what I don’t want but not what I would want to see happen, might come across as trying to shut down discussion and block progress. I think that’s valid feedback, and so want to correct that with a brief elaboration.

Clearly, my statement indicates a desire to shut down discussion—_in this current mode and context_.

For one thing, I thought there had been general consensus that a topic like creating an entirely new format would be pending a discussion elsewhere (the TFCG) on what new areas of activity should be discussed and what the appropriate context(s) for those should be.

Secondly, discussion was bringing up specific design details (dropping CFF, what OS/2 metrics are needed, how formats for graphic elements should be architected), which is putting the cart waaaaayyyy ahead of the horse: As Adam and Vlad suggested, this topic needs to start with a cost-benefit analysis. I’d expand that a bit: any work to start in this direction would need a carefully thought-out business case _and_ strategic roadmap that can convince a broad range of vendors, including most or all the majors, that there will be beneficial ROI and a feasible path to success that takes current realities into consideration. (Do I sound like a PM?) Engineering is first of all a matter of addressing real public or business problems or opportunities. Without that, technical design is nothing more than a science project.

And until vendors have bought into a business case and strategic roadmap, talk of a _hugely_ disruptive change (which is what is being discussed) is counter-productive: at best, a noisy distraction; and at worst, perceived as intended to create discord and new font wars.

I’m all for designing a new and better mousetrap, and I’d be in favour of discussions that explore business case and possible paths to success. But I don’t think this email thread is net helping move toward that. Let’s progress one step at a time, as generally agreed, in the TFCG.


Peter

From: Peter Constable
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 3:57 PM
To: mpeg-otspec <mpeg-otspec at lists.aau.at<mailto:mpeg-otspec at lists.aau.at>>
Subject: RE: [MPEG-OTSPEC] Introducing breaking changes into the spec (was: RE: [EXTERNAL] Proposal to deprecate derived search values)

I really hope we’re not going to try to define some entirely new font format by email.


Peter
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