[MPEG-OTSPEC] Proposal to discontinue the AdHoc Group

Mon Sep 21 17:19:30 CEST 2020

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 9:18 AM Levantovsky, Vladimir <
Vladimir.Levantovsky at monotype.com> wrote:

> On Monday, September 21, 2020 2:39 AM Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
>
> On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 3:41 PM Levantovsky, Vladimir <
> Vladimir.Levantovsky at monotype.com> wrote:
>
> Behdad,
>
>
>
> Asking the ISO/IEC SC29 Working Group
>
> > to acknowledge that the AdHoc model has NOT worked for many in the
> industry
>
> is a strong request, one that cannot be made without providing any
> substance to support it.
>
>
>
> Great. Where can I submit the evidence? My allegations involve you, Peter,
> Sairus, and Greg. So the party hearing my complaints cannot include any of
> you four because conflict of interest.
>
>
>
> Fascinating! So you seem to have made an attempt to redefine the concept
> of a “fair trial” where people you accuse of hypothetical / ephemeral
> wrongdoing [without any evidence to support it] CANNOT face the accuser, is
> that right?
>

No. Just that they cannot be the *judge*.

>
>
> I've been asking you since June or July about how to file a complaint and
> you have refused to give me an answer. At the last video meeting you said
> "I don't know", but you didn't say that when I first asked you in writing.
> Instead you asked to video-call and just told me to NOT file a complaint
> because it will threaten the existence of the AHG. The existence of the AHG
> benefits you personally.
>
>
>
> It is your opinion, FWIW. I told you on multiple occasions that my biggest
> concern is that this group is an open and accessible resource for all
> members of the community who want to have their voices heard, with no
> barrier for entry. So yes, your allegations may hurt this group and the
> community it serves.
>
> As I see it now, my attempts to reason with you were futile – both during
> the personal conversations and via email on this list. I said it before and
> I will say it again – your allegations that are not supported by any
> evidence (and your refusal to publicly provide evidence to this group) are,
> in fact, damaging to this community and to the work of the group.
>
> This is especially important when there is a strong evidence to the
> contrary, that this work has been successfully conducted since 2004, that
> the OFF standard (ISO/IEC 14496-22) has undergone four editions (in 2007,
> 2009, 2015, and 2019) and numerous amendments,
>
>
>
> Seriously? You, as the chair of this MOFF / AHG whatever, are so blatantly
> dismissing my allegations that there are problems? I'm a *very*
> well-established expert and prolific member of this community and I've been
> alleging for three months now that THERE IS A PROBLEM.
>
>
>
>  “alleging” is a key word here. Your unprofessional conduct and public
> accusations of members of this group of wrongdoing on multiple occasions
> (see https://twitter.com/behdadesfahbod/status/1274744367882702848 and
> https://medium.com/@behdadesfahbod/violence-abuse-racism-and-colonialism-in-the-type-industry-807b7af2bbfa)
> didn’t go unnoticed – where is the evidence? I asked the same question
> first time when you asked about filing a complaint, and I repeatedly asked
> you again and again to substantiate your allegations. Apparently, my
> reluctance to accept your allegations without evidence was enough for you
> to target me personally.
>
>
>
>  and is widely adopted in the industry (see References below). While the
> WG has been responsible for this work item, the actual work has been done
> by the AHG.
>
>
>
> Can you please elaborate on what, in your opinion, “has NOT worked”? Can
> you point out to any instance of a technical discussion conducted in this
> Ad-Hoc Group where a technical objection has been raised that did not
> receive due consideration and has not been properly reflected in an AHG
> proposal or recommendation?
>
>
>
> I will to a fair and impartial group of people who have authority to make
> changes.
>
>
>
> My point exactly! So far, we’ve seen many allegations and no facts.
>
> Vlad
>
>
>
> b
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Vladimir
>
>
>
> References (list of industry standards normatively referencing ISO/IEC
> 14496-22):
>
> CE / TV standards:
>
> 1) DCI Digital Cinema Systems Specification since 2008 by errata (most
> recent is v. 1.3:
> https://www.dcimovies.com/specification/DCI_DCSS_Ver1-3_2018-0627.pdf
> <https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/0jmHC4xqwzFJJRLjSOjraq>) – mandates
> ISO/IEC 14496-22 support.
>
> 2) ETSI TS 103 285 V1.1.1 (2015)
> <https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/0cZsC5yrxRh00wqnHOO5eD> Digital Video
> Broadcasting (DVB); MPEG-DASH Profile for Transport of ISO BMFF Based DVB
> Services over IP Based Networks (mandates both ISO/IEC 14496-22 “OFF” and
> WOFF)
>
> 3) ATSC 3.0 Interactive Content (A/344:2017,
> https://www.atsc.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/A344-2017-Interactive-Content.pdf
> <https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/SUwyC68vyBsooZQ3HmKfqj>) – mandates
> both ISO/IEC 14496-22 and WOFF (normative references [20] and [35])
>
> 4) Digital Video Broadcasting (DVB); Globally Executable MHP (GEM)
> Specification 1.3 (including OTT and hybrid broadcast/broadband) DVB
> Document A153:
> https://dvb.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/A153_GEM_v1_3.pdf
> <https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/y4dwC73wzpCmmn3PiNAuMd> (normatively
> references OpenType via ISO/IEC14496-18, the predecessor of ISO/IEC
> 14496-22). Also,
> https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_ts/102700_102799/102728/01.01.01_60/ts_102728v010101p.pdf
> <https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/qZwwC82xAMhjjBnJIoO2Xg>
>
> 5) Digital Video Broadcasting (DVB); Multimedia Home Platform (MHP)
> Specification 1.2 (http://wiki.commres.org/pds/MHP/a107.MHP1.2.pdf
> <https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/hmuwC9ryBDhmmroZi1gEn8>, normatively
> references OpenType via ISO/IEC14496-18, the predecessor of ISO/IEC
> 14496-22).
>
> 6) OC-SP-OCAP 1.0-I16-050803 OpenCable Application Platform Specification
> (mandates support for OpenType, based on DVB GEM specification)
>
> 7) Hybrid Broadcast Broadband TV (mandates OFF and WOFF support for TTML
> subtitles with downloadable fonts via DVB A168 MPEG-DASH profile [45], and
> also via OIPF Web Standards TV Profile [i.6]):
> https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_ts/102700_102799/102796/01.04.01_60/ts_102796v010401p.pdf
> <https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/lU2QC0Rmp0u22Y6ECLqbQC>
>
> 8) DVB TTML subtitling systems (ETSI EN 303 560 V1.1.1 (2018-05), mandates
> both ISO/IEC 14496-22 “OFF” [19] and WOFF [18]):
> https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_en/303500_303599/303560/01.01.01_60/en_303560v010101p.pdf
> <https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/I4YlCgJGKnTll4VgTK9fU8>
>
>
>
> Web font standards:
>
> Both WOFF 1.0 (https://www.w3.org/TR/WOFF/
> <https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/NuXACjRkM0ujjZp6IMndO6/>) and WOFF 2.0
> (https://www.w3.org/TR/WOFF2/
> <https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/BBaxCkRlKrunnomLcDsmlz/>)
> Recommendations normatively reference OFF (ISO/IEC 14496-22).
>
>
>
> Other standards:
>
> 1) DICOM Standard (specifies the set of Information Object Definitions
> (IODs) that provide an abstract definition of real-world objects applicable
> to communication of digital medical information, normatively references
> ISO/IEC 14496-22):
> http://dicom.nema.org/medical/Dicom/2016c/output/chtml/part03/chapter_2.html
> <https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/eCjDClYmL2Uoo6g9HLzMIo>
>
> 2) Dynamic and Interactive Multimedia Scenes (DIMS) (3GPP TS 26.142
> version 7.3.0 Release 7; ETSI TS 126 142 V7.3.0 (2009-06) – mandates
> support for ISO/IEC 14496-22, normative reference [4]):
> https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_ts/126100_126199/126142/07.03.00_60/ts_126142v070300p.pdf
> <https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/ZUx_CmZn6YI55kE0HVgKus>
>
> 3) OMA Rich Media Environment Technical Specification
> (OMA-TS-RME-V1_0-20110329-A, mandates support for ISO/IEC 14496-22 -
> normative reference [OFF]):
> https://www.openmobilealliance.org/release/RME/V1_0-20110329-A/OMA-TS-RME-V1_0-20110329-A.pdf
> <https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/twzICn5oXgsGGrMyC4Qh-r>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* mpeg-otspec <mpeg-otspec-bounces at lists.aau.at> *On Behalf Of *Behdad
> Esfahbod
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 16, 2020 4:16 PM
> *To:* mpeg-otspec <mpeg-otspec at lists.aau.at>
> *Subject:* [MPEG-OTSPEC] Proposal to discontinue the AdHoc Group
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I like to propose to the ISO WG overseeing this group to acknowledge that
> the AdHoc model has NOT worked for many in the industry and discontinue
> this model.
>
>
>
> Vlad, can you please add this to agenda for the next meeting of the WG?
>
>
> behdad
> http://behdad.org/
> <https://protect-us.mimecast.com/s/8viXCpYqKkUzzpXlcq25s9/>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.aau.at/pipermail/mpeg-otspec/attachments/20200921/cbebc7bc/attachment.html>