[MPEG-OTSPEC] Proposal to discontinue the AdHoc Group

[Dave Crossland]

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:22 AM Behdad Esfahbod <behdad at behdad.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 9:16 AM Dave Crossland <dcrossland at google.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:53 AM Behdad Esfahbod <behdad at behdad.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 7:10 AM Dave Crossland <dcrossland at google.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, I see no reason to discontinue the AHG while the possibility that
>>>> it can be reformed is so clear.
>>>>
>>>
>>> "Is so clear".. as in, the chair continues to completely deny that there
>>> is any problem?
>>>
>>
>> Vlad did not deny there is a problem. He asked for you to provide more
>> substance.
>>
>
> He has continually been praising the AHG as a model of how to do work. I'm
> not asking he to agree with any of my allegations, but to acknowledge that
> there are outstanding allegations of problems, and provide me a way to
> present them to a fair and impartial group who has authority. He has
> refused to so far.
>

What I hear Vlad saying is that he DOES acknowledges that there are
outstanding allegations of problems, and in return he would like you to do
2 things:

1. Acknowledge that there are aspects of the past/status-quo that are
successful. I think this would make you seem more reasonable.

Adam Twardoch is often modelling this kind of 'reasonable' way of
communicating, being polite - even joking around - while also making
serious points.

I myself learned, from him and others, that it is useful to do this,
because it encourages my audience to actually listen to me, instead of
forming a knee-jerk emotionally negative reaction to not listen and dismiss
what I am saying out of hand.

I see that you feel strong emotions about this situation, and want to
express them - and that asking you to "calm down" is actually escalating
the emotional charge rather than de-escalating it (which is called "tone
policing" and is a well-documented social dynamic, if not well-known.)

So I want to be explicit that I am not asking you to communicate
differently, but in saying "I proposal to discontinue the AdHoc Group," I
am keen to hear from you what should replace it, and that will also
involve enumerating the aspects of the AHG that are successful and seeking
to retain.

2. Provide concrete examples of what you are complaining about, or the
context in which, what you are complaining did not happen, has occurred in.

In order for Vlad to provide you or me or anyone in the AHG some special
access to ISO people, beyond emails to this list, I think it is valid for
him to ask us provide at the main points we want to make, first, so that
Vlad can send a request to the possible 'judge' people to specially spend
their time and attention on some matter.

I think that is necessary in order for a judge to decide to spend the time,
because the AHG is open to the general public, and "frivolous" complaints
often happen. I am quite sure that with the massive increase in volume of
emails to this list in the last few months, not every message is being read
and considered.

We were just discussing yesterday in
https://github.com/MPEGGroup/OpenFontFormat/issues/12#issuecomment-695879127
that the MERG table may be a good concrete example of such substance to
complain about, for example.

Cheers
Dave

>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.aau.at/pipermail/mpeg-otspec/attachments/20200921/36c78382/attachment.html>